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Old 04-19-2010, 06:15 PM   #1
aidren
Edge User
 
PDF Functionality

For those who aren't aware, the eDGe exports pdfs as image files, thereby losing all of the functionality of what a pdf is supposed to be. See my earlier post http://www.entourageedge.com/forums/...=1722#post1722

I have written techsupport to find out if the following feature requests are possible.

1) The ability to save/export a text based pdf file that
1. is compatible with Acrobat Pro, therefore, maintains the existing bookmarks (TOC) comments/notes as well as the bookmarks, comments/notes that have been added on the eDGe in a manner that maintains the functionality of the document when opened in Acrobat. (I am currently using Acrobat Pro v8 for Mac) Basically, being able to keep the file updated/synced between your PC and the eDGe.
2. If (1) is not possible a means to export the file maintaining the eDGe comments/notes (so they are compatible with Acrobat Pro), which can then be imported to the originating file using the 'import comments' feature in Acrobat Pro. This is a workaround, at best, but I think I could live with it. (One of the things to be aware of with this is that the 'originating' file and the file being used for the 'import' have to have the same number of pages or the comments don't map correctly.)
2) The ability to save/export an image file with hidden text layer – with the same attributes as in (1) above.

3) The ability to have access to the comments/notes created in Acrobat Pro on the eDGe. Presently, they show up in the book info/TOC on the LCD screen and are active as links, but the actual comments are not accessible.
 
Old 04-21-2010, 01:36 PM   #2
soilwork
Edge User
 
Definitely the feature I would love to have. Please keep us informed on how techsupport responds.
 
Old 04-22-2010, 08:13 PM   #3
aidren
Edge User
 
Entourage was very quick and courteous in replying to my question. And this was the reply...

Quote:
...Currently exporting a pdf with the text layer intact is in the planning phases but it is not targeted towards an upcoming feature releases, I do expect this capability to appear at some point in the future. In terms of compatibility with markups between the eDGe and the acrobat, currently we are not not actively working on this capability. Unfortunately this is not as positive an answer as I would like to have for you but we do want to address your concerns and our priorities on adding these capabilities may change in the future.
...which then prompted me to write to their help department as I had to make a decision whether to keep the eDGe, or return it. I won't post the letter as it was quite long. But I did ask if the lack of PDF compatibility/function was due to technical or proprietary issues. And I also included my list of feature requests that began this thread. This was the answer.

Quote:
We actually use the Adobe Digital Reader SDK as the foundation for our e-reader and Journal applications. Any limitations we have are either defined by Adobe or are dictated by the Digital Rights of the publication itself.
This answer seems to suggest to me that they may not be able to include the features I am requesting. Since I am not an Adobe Digital Editions user, I decided I needed to research Digital Editions, PDFs and their subsets, and the ever-evolving DRM thing. I will put that in a following post.
 
Old 04-22-2010, 08:39 PM   #4
aidren
Edge User
 
Since finding out that most/all(?) of my complaints about the way the eDGe handles PDF compatibility may be due to restrictions defined by Adobe or DRMs, and, since, I don't use Digital Editions, I have spent some time digging around to try to figure things out. Some of what I found seems to explain not only my concerns but also some issues that others have brought up in other threads on the forum. I took the time to excerpt some of the information I found. I'll use some snippets in this post. I have a longer pdf version of what I found of interest, but attachments are turned off on the forum.

Of course, my interpretations/assumptions may be way off the map. Perhaps some of the developers on the forum could comment?

THESE EXCERPTS ARE FROM ADOBE DIGITAL EDITIONS HELP... not Entourage.
http://www.adobe.com/products/digita...ibrary_reading

So, this might explain some of the odd file storage/handling features? It kind of sounds, to me, like Entourage may be restricted to keeping the annotation/note/ functions within the library/internal storage. These are just the instructions, but some of what I was reading was suggesting the the DE library on the desktop is secured as is the library on the eDGe, thereby preventing any type of file exchange except through the SSID protocols or the export to PDF which has its limitations.

Quote:
To transfer a library item to another authorized computer:
On the computer you're transferring from, locate and open the My Digital Editions folder, located inside the My Documents folder.

Choose the EPUB or PDF files that correspond to the eBook titles you want to transfer.
Copy the selected files to portable media such as a flash drive, or e-mail the files to the target computer.

On the target computer, copy the EPUB or PDF files into the My Documents\My Digital Editions folder.

Open Adobe Digital Editions on the target computer. Choose Library > Add Item, and then navigate to the My Digital Editions folder and select the new files to bring them into the library.
And then there are these...

Quote:
Note: Bookmarks are not copied when items are transferred to another computer.

Note: The bookmarks you add are Adobe Digital Editions bookmarks; they are not PDF bookmarks (which in Acrobat or Reader are added to your "bookmarks," and which in Adobe Digital Editions are represented as the Table of Contents).

Native PDF annotations are not supported by Adobe Digital Editions.
I'm pretty sure I've seen this problem in the forum somewhere

Quote:
Users will occasionally see a "Session ID" error when authenticating a newly downloaded book. This is a known server-side issue that the Adobe Digital Editions team is working to resolve. The workaround is to retry the download.
This one may have something to do with the annotations remapping when zoomed.

Quote:
navigating via a bookmark or annotation may not properly display the correct portion of the page in Fit to Width or Custom Fit page display modes.
This would explain the colours when exporting to pdf.

Quote:
In the document, bookmarked text is highlighted in yellow for bookmarks with notes, or pink for bookmarks without notes.
The exporting to 'image, that I have whined about, may well be related to DRMs and copyright protection.
 
Old 04-22-2010, 09:49 PM   #5
aidren
Edge User
 
The heck of it is, Boris, that I don't even own a commercial ebook yet! The PDF books I have are rather obscure, old, public domain material that, some of which, I have spent much time building TOC's and annotating, which I now lose when moving back and forth between the eDGe and my desktop. I have figured out a work around, but it IS extra work, done on the desktop, staring at a backlit lcd, which is killing my old eyes.

Basically, it is comparable to me sitting in my living room with a printed book, making pencil notes and adding my little coloured page tags, and being told if I want to move to the kitchen, I have to remove all the tags and erase all of the pencil marks! And it's MY book. They're taking my free book and locking it up.

I suppose my only hope is if a "wonderful open source person" (I LOVE the Open Source/FSF people) creates something that solves the problem. Honestly, I think Adobe should have code within their software that recognizes material that is open and allows, AT LEAST, adequate, full featured export.

Adobe is a Dirty Word in My Book... and getting dirtier, daily.
 
Old 04-22-2010, 10:07 PM   #6
10tklz
Edge User
 
I'm in a similar boat to aidren,I constantly reference obscure/public domain works in pdf format in addition to pdf versions of technical books and textbooks (I have eye problems so I get all my textbooks in an electronic format). The EDGE is perfect for me but Adobe is not.
 
Old 04-23-2010, 03:08 PM   #7
dcubed2
Edge User
 
I've been noticing some problems with pdfs, too. All I'm trying to do is read the darn things - not even annotate yet. Google books pdfs with images don't work well with Adobe for eReaders from what I can see. If you want the original formatting, typeset, etc - you need the pdf not epub version - but the Adobe software is only showing the text and blank spaces where the image should be and zoom doesn't work. It's fine on the pc. Books scanned by Microsoft seem to be just fine, text and images showing up together and zoom works. I've had issues with some pdfs only displaying the full title and author in the upper margin of the eReader side but the actual pages are blank. Haven't tried those on the pc yet to see of Adobe for the pc works, but I suspect it does. I'd like Adobe to make the eReader more robust like the pc version. I've written Adobe about this issue, but never heard back.

For now, I open each file on the eDGe to see if it works. If it doesn't, I delete it since I don't know when or if there will be a fix to this. I believe enTourage is trying to work around Adobe to get a greater variety of pdfs to work with the eDGe, but I don't know how successful they will be. And, who knows if Adobe will make the changes to their software?

Oh, as a humorous note, I've tried some color pdfs on the Docs to Go pdf reader and some work great! But others look like a watercolor painting that someone has thrown a bucket of water onto. Running color down the pages. I'm writing Dataviz about it. But, it does look quite funny ;-) Oh, Docs to Go doesn't even open the Google pdfs with illustrations or other problem pdfs. They just have big red Xs through the pages. So, the running colors show up great in B&W on the eReader side.
And, like you guys, all of these files are public domain so there shouldn't be a DRM issue at all.
 
Old 04-23-2010, 03:16 PM   #8
aidren
Edge User
 
Quote:
I've written Adobe about this issue, but never heard back.
Somehow, this doesn't surprise me!

I have some further experiments to try myself. Don't know when I'll get to them... but I'll post anything I find of interest when I do.
 
Old 04-23-2010, 03:38 PM   #9
dcubed2
Edge User
 
I was also in contact with someone from Google Books - at least until I told them about their books not showing up correctly on eReaders. Haven't heard back since. I was hoping that Google might be able to leverage Adobe into doing something. I always knew that writing Adobe as a single user (ie a nobody) was a very long shot.

enTourage tested some files I sent them on other eReaders and had the same problem, so it's not just the eDGe.
 
Old 05-04-2010, 07:08 PM   #10
aidren
Edge User
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcubed2 View Post
I was also in contact with someone from Google Books - at least until I told them about their books not showing up correctly on eReaders. Haven't heard back since. I was hoping that Google might be able to leverage Adobe into doing something. I always knew that writing Adobe as a single user (ie a nobody) was a very long shot.

enTourage tested some files I sent them on other eReaders and had the same problem, so it's not just the eDGe.
I posted something pertaining to this here

http://www.entourageedge.com/forums/...-any-d-led-PDF
 
Old 05-04-2010, 07:11 PM   #11
aidren
Edge User
 
Well, I finally discovered that if I export directly from the library, my original pdf gets exported with hidden text and bookmarks in tact. Obviously, no comments/notes made on the eDGe come with it, but I am at least a little happier. And... am feeling a little egg on my face
 
 

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