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Old 06-16-2011, 02:57 PM   #211
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Maybe "important" isn't the right word. Perhaps they see that they can't compete very well with readers that are sold at very low margins or even at a loss to drive business to channeled US ebook stores.
Yeah, lestatar said better than I did. I still think I'm on to something though... if the US eReader market simply isn't a high priority for Sony, that explains practically everything.
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Old 06-16-2011, 03:22 PM   #212
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Something that I think may not have occurred to everyone yet: Sony may not consider the US market to be nearly as important as we do. For all we know may be planning to get the bulk of their profits from Asia and/or Europe, and the US market and consumers get lip service because in the bigger Sony scheme of things we're not as important?

If that is their assumption, that would explain a lot.
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^ This is as good a guess as any. Maybe something akin to military strategy? Perhaps Sony sees the USA market as being lost to them already, what with Kindle and Nooks. So instead of waging a futile effort in a major way, they shift their primary focus to other global markets, where ereading hasn't become quite as engrained/popular...yet.

The world is bigger than USA after all

This would fit nicely with the recent announcement from Sony about pairing up with [? company forgotten] in this area, possibly only for Japan/Asia.
It is nice to see you guys finally come to a conclusion I offered 12 pages ahead in this thread. Makes me feel taken seriously.

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Sony is said to be no. 3 in the US and no. 1 in Europe and Russia.

Why should they stop selling their readers, when they dominate the developping markets?
This is from the parallel thread Will Kobo, Nook and Amazon Touch kill Sony?

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So give me a good reason why Sony should play by the US rules, where they are a good no. 3 and never will make it to the top no matter how much they drop their prices and invest in marketing.

This just makes no sense. Whereas it makes a lot of sense to invest in the developing markets over here where they already are the top brand and where it will be doable for them to stay in that position.

The US are more or less done ereaderwise, but the rest of the world is not.

So, why should they cater to the whims of the Americans? They have not done so before, why should they start now?
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Old 06-16-2011, 03:29 PM   #213
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Yeah, lestatar said better than I did. I still think I'm on to something though... if the US eReader market simply isn't a high priority for Sony, that explains practically everything.
Yes, I agree.
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Old 06-16-2011, 03:34 PM   #214
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It is nice to see you guys finally come to a conclusion I offered 12 pages ahead in this thread. Makes me feel taken seriously. ...SNIPPED...
Better late than never but props all the same!
'sides, I am lazy so I only read back like the first page and the last 2 pages of threads.
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Old 06-16-2011, 03:45 PM   #215
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It is nice to see you guys finally come to a conclusion I offered 12 pages ahead in this thread. Makes me feel taken seriously.
If it makes you feel any better, I didn't actually start reading the thread until page 13 or so.

But I'm glad to see that you agree with me. You're obviously an intelligent and insightful person.
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Old 06-16-2011, 04:11 PM   #216
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The US are more or less done ereaderwise, but the rest of the world is not.

So, why should they cater to the whims of the Americans?
Well, all we need here is a little dose of America bashing. Of course Sony should snub the U.S., go straight to the markets where people appreciate what's good for them? Europe! Russia! Japan! Brazil!

I don't believe there is any real statistics about the U.S., European and Russian ebook reader markets. At some point 5 years ago Sony was number one throughout the world. That's a fact because the competition didn't exist yet. Perhaps it is still number 3 in the U.S., but I highly doubt it. With their recent availability problems that is. Among the e-Ink manufactures they may be number 4 (behind Kindle, nook and Kobo), and if we count iOS and Android devices (phones and tablets) - number 6. I suspect they are quickly losing positions to Kindle in the U.K., Germany and Eastern Europe (a lot of people appreciate free 3G). Amazon has become a global player, with its cheap prices, worldwide shipping and no-hassle customer service. In Russia Sony have long lost the number one position to Pocketbook (although the x50 were quite popular there while they could be found). China has its own many clone-makers.

Yes, there are markets to be had, especially where pirated or public domain content is widely available, so "biosphere" (store integration) doesn't play a big role. However, who is to say that in a couple of years those too will not be overflowing with cheap Chinese clones running Android and therefore capable of reading all popular ebook formats?

I happen to believe that with the high tech gadgets how America goes, so goes the world. The people who can afford Sony Readers will probably try to get the hottest U.S. gadget. Be it iPad, iPhone or Kindle. So, if Sony is not in the U.S., it might as well go back into its tight Japanese niche.

I think at some point Sony's bosses used to understand this. Must've been the reason the Digital Reading Division was set up in California, and not in Germany...

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Old 06-16-2011, 05:02 PM   #217
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Well, all we need here is a little dose of America bashing. Of course Sony should snub the U.S., go straight to the markets where people appreciate what's good for them? Europe! Russia! Japan! Brazil!
Oh my good Lord!
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Old 06-16-2011, 05:17 PM   #218
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Well, all we need here is a little dose of America bashing. Of course Sony should snub the U.S., go straight to the markets where people appreciate what's good for them? Europe! Russia! Japan! Brazil!
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Oh my good Lord!
Let's not take this thread any further in this direction, please?
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Old 06-16-2011, 05:45 PM   #219
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Sony focus on the European market usually only consists of the UK, Germany and France.

The scandinavian countries for example, don't get to enjoy Sony products before a good 6 months to a year after they debut in Japan/US. People admire my Sony reader, they are surprised that Sony even makes them.

With Sony also disinvesting from UK stores, not really much left of europe to be the market leader of.
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Old 06-16-2011, 06:47 PM   #220
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Something that I think may not have occurred to everyone yet: Sony may not consider the US market to be nearly as important as we do. For all we know may be planning to get the bulk of their profits from Asia and/or Europe, and the US market and consumers get lip service because in the bigger Sony scheme of things we're not as important?

If that is their assumption, that would explain a lot.
No, really, don't feel persecuted, they're just as rubbish in Europe - well, certainly the UK -as they apparently are in the States !
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Old 06-16-2011, 08:45 PM   #221
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As for Sony, seeing as the verdict here is that they have already failed in the eReader market - and I'm not trying to defend anything they have said or done recently - it may well be the case that as a corporation they are just dysfunctional and can't join the dots. I've seen that many times. That said though I'll make the following points just for perspective.....
That's the verdict of only a few people, actually. And as I have pointed out, it's based on errant information or misinterpretation, or simply repeating a false statement over and over.

Even the post that Sony is hiring for the Reader division was dismissed. "OMG it's just one person! DOooommmm!!"

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a) The market for eBooks is still in the process of being established - in much the same way as the market for online music is. That means that issues relating to distribution, revenue sharing, copying etc etc all remain to be resolved by the market. Anyone who really thinks right now that they know how to make that business work - it's a golden opportunity to get in - there's lots of venture capital waiting for you.

b) E-Reader tech is just getting to the point where it provides an experience similar to a book - the technology is still developing and is still under some threat from lcd screens - it's by no means certain that it will continue to advance sufficiently to replace books or justify purchase of a device in addition to a computer/tablet. Could well end up a niche technology.
Actually I disagree a bit with these two points.

The main hurdle for e-readers has been selling the e-Ink experience. The general public doesn't understand what it is and/or why it's an advantage. That has changed in the last year (?) with Amazon marketing against the iPad -- the commercial of the hot girl reading the Kindle in the sun, and the dorky guy failing with the iPad.

Faster computer, lighter computer, features feature features... those are all easy sells. But "screen!" just doesn't knock 'em down.

The tech has been at the book-like point since the PRS-500. Very little has changed since then, really, in terms of the screen. Better contrast and response, but same resolution. Baby steps in computer terms!

LCD is a challenge now because it offers color. But two years ago, dedicated e-Readers were primarily e-Ink. Now the Nook color is sold as a single-purpose device, eliminates all the advantages of e-Ink, but has a very understandable selling point: color. Countering that with "eye strain!" is, again, a pretty hard sell.

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Personally I wouldn't assume that Sony have ceded the market just yet - I don't think the market is mature yet. After all, Apple sell books too and they're betting big on the iPad.
They haven't. They're still widely available, as cited multiple times in the thread. Even if they pull back entirely to Sony Style, that's not a sign of decline: Apple used a dedicated seller model for ages, and did very well. Sony is probably the 3rd best-selling dedicated e-Reader on the market (nobody releases sales info, unfortunately). You don't have to be #1 to make lots of money! Once again, look at Apple computer sales! They survived with less than 10% of the market!

The biggest drawback now, IMHO, is the lock-in between device and store. That's bad for consumers because choice of Reader is influenced by choice of book store. If you like the Sony but want to buy books from Amazon, you cannot. This also harms competition in the book market. Once you're locked in, you're locked in... you can't go to a different store for a better price, so there is no incentive to lower prices!

-Pie

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Old 06-16-2011, 10:04 PM   #222
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They haven't. They're still widely available, as cited multiple times in the thread. Even if they pull back entirely to Sony Style, that's not a sign of decline
Are you a paid advertiser of Sony? If so, I welcome you! Would show a level of interest I'd be excited about!

But seriously, while you argue well, your so intent on pursuing your agenda that you're dismissing the majority of the information discussed here, to a level that's almost approaching denial.

It reminds me of a humorous sketch with a cook, he drops a steak dinner on the floor muttering "5 second rule, its still good, it's still good", a dog comes and starts biting the steak "just a little moist, it's still good, it's still good", it combusts "just a little smoked, it's still good, it's still good". etc.

We see the same here. Sony are disinvesting themselves of retailers and stock, it's still good, it's still good. Sony are not renewing stocks of accessories even on their own site, it's still good, it's still good. Sony are not renewing stock of the READERS themselves on their OWN website, it's still good, it's still good.

Whats left of Sony's reader business? They are only selling the 350 on their website, a severely reduced collection of accessories and what's left of their stock in assorted retail stores which are rapidly running out. That's it.

But according to you, they are so successfull you're comparing them to Apple. Sony's READER market, doesnt have what Apple has, a successfull perpertuating eco system and a brand awareness so huge that people are selling their liver for their product.

Regardless of technology, this being a niche market and Sony apparantly being the 3rd best selling Ereader a year ago. They NEED to actually sell their readers, or they will be the 3rd best selling nothing.
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Old 06-16-2011, 11:11 PM   #223
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Are you a paid advertiser of Sony? If so, I welcome you! Would show a level of interest I'd be excited about!

But seriously, while you argue well, your so intent on pursuing your agenda that you're dismissing the majority of the information discussed here, to a level that's almost approaching denial.
Because I am running against the grain of this thread, I must be paid by Sony? Seriously? Sheesh.

I find this totally astounding to be honest. Even after I posted that all Reader were in stock, with links proving such, my post was dismissed as foolish. And that post completely contradicted all "anecdotal" evidence presented about Sony Style previously.

And said "anecdotal" evidence is still being referred to as though it's true, even though it was proven false!

And I am the one with the agenda. Sheesh.

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It reminds me of a humorous sketch with a cook, he drops a steak dinner on the floor muttering "5 second rule, its still good, it's still good", a dog comes and starts biting the steak "just a little moist, it's still good, it's still good", it combusts "just a little smoked, it's still good, it's still good". etc.

We see the same here. Sony are disinvesting themselves of retailers and stock, it's still good, it's still good. Sony are not renewing stocks of accessories even on their own site, it's still good, it's still good. Sony are not renewing stock of the READERS themselves on their OWN website, it's still good, it's still good.
I find it funny that you have twice resorted to purely insulting rhetorical responses.

And you do so with untrue assertions.

Many retailers are selling the PRS-350, even Target who pulled them from B&M over a year ago have them online. The only mainstream retailer verified to discontinue Readers is Best Buy.

Last week, every Reader was in stock. This week, they are out of stock. Is there some event happening in the US that could cause this? It's almost like there is a celebration for a specific demographic that might be interested in reading... a day set aside just for them... Nah...

Ironically, when the Readers were in stock last week, one person posted that it was bad because of too much stock (ie no sales). They sell out a few days before Father's Day, and it's bad because there's no stock!

And I have an agenda, and get a funny story.

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Whats left of Sony's reader business? They are only selling the 350 on their website, a severely reduced collection of accessories and what's left of their stock in assorted retail stores which are rapidly running out. That's it.

But according to you, they are so successfull you're comparing them to Apple. Sony's READER market, doesnt have what Apple has, a successfull perpertuating eco system and a brand awareness so huge that people are selling their liver for their product.

Regardless of technology, this being a niche market and Sony apparantly being the 3rd best selling Ereader a year ago. They NEED to actually sell their readers, or they will be the 3rd best selling nothing.
*Sigh* Somebody needs to read a little about history of computing. Particularly the late '80s through the '90s.

Someone also needs to understand that going from total stock (except for one color of one model) to no stock suggests they are selling well. Wait, I forgot! Stock is bad. No stock is bad! It's all bad!

Sheesh.

-Pie

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Old 06-17-2011, 04:15 AM   #224
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"The biggest drawback now, IMHO, is the lock-in between device and store. That's bad for consumers because choice of Reader is influenced by choice of book store. If you like the Sony but want to buy books from Amazon, you cannot. This also harms competition in the book market. Once you're locked in, you're locked in... you can't go to a different store for a better price, so there is no incentive to lower prices!"

I'm slightly puzzled by this from EatingPie.

Are you criticizing Amazon, or Sony ? Or neither, just making a statement of fact ?

Amazon is the only store Sony are ( theoretically that is ) unable to access, is that not so ?
And most Sony owners are either content with this, or accept it, 'cos they can go to all the other sources for free or paid for books. Some are even happy, in the main, with not being largely stuck with what what Amazon hve available for them.
With a Sony you can go to a different store for a better price.

If you're target is Amazon, I agree - but as I don't much care, as they don't (yet?) have a monoploy position in the supply of e-material.

'Course, if I've misread the post as it's too early and I haven'y yet had a cup of tea, I'm sorry................
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Old 06-17-2011, 06:01 AM   #225
Leyor
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Posts: 176
Karma: 347750
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Denmark
Device: Sony PRS-950, Cybook 3. gen, Sony T1, Kindle Paperwhite
Quote:
Originally Posted by EatingPie View Post
Because I am running against the grain of this thread, I must be paid by Sony? Seriously? Sheesh.
I think you're taking the comment a little too serious, it was my attempt to be a little humorous and lighten the mood since we're in complete disagrement about the core subject.

I do not believe that you are a paid Sony employee, although I'd welcome that level of commitment from Sony and I don't think you habour any ill intentions just because we're in disagreement.

I do think you're guilty of a bit of an apologism though. I think the bulk of posts in this forum indicates that Sony is giving up a big of the market that they previously held. If this is in anticipation of a new strategy I do not know and can only speculate about. But their readers and their accessories ARE less available than they were 6 months ago.

I also think you're guilty of using a logical fallacy consisting of exceptions to argue your point rather than arguing the assertions themselves.

Examples are:

Claim: There's less accessories available than before, even on Sony's website.
Counterclaim: There's not, and even if there's less than 6 months ago, it's only for specific models, and these specific models stopped being available 6 months ago anyways.

The fact that there's still some accessories remaining, doesn't change that Sony has less products available than before.

Claim: Sony is disinvesting themselves of their retailers, posts on this forum indiciate it is so. VHS in the UK, Target, Borders and Best Buy in the US.
Counterclaim: One of sony's models the 350 is still widely available.

Same as before.

This is really the trend of argumentation. None of us are Sony market specialists, so everything here is purely speculative.

Having less product less widely available, not meeting demand, is not encouraging for the majority of us. It's not a common indication of success to withdraw your product and not meeting demand. We all hope that Sony is successfull since we enjoy their readers and look forward to new models, but we disagree on their success.

Don't take that disagreement personally please. Regardless of what Sony are planning or not planning, it won't detract from us enjoying our readers and making the best of it

Last edited by Leyor; 06-17-2011 at 06:26 AM.
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