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Old 06-15-2011, 10:15 PM   #181
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i honestly don't see why someone would be a sony ereader.
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Old 06-15-2011, 10:16 PM   #182
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When there is a paradigm shift in the market, the lazy complacent companies are the ones that suffers.
Hmmmm - to me that sounds rather like saying that in the Olympic 100 metres final the atheletes that don't win must be lazy complacent athletes just because they didn't win. It's just convenient for the consumer to take the view that anyone he doesn't like or isn't doing well isn't doing well because they're no good or too stupid. Generally the view of people who've never started a business or taken taken a risk in my experience.

Businesses fail for many reasons, sometimes they have constraints that they simply cannot shirk which put them at a disadvantage. I've seen plenty of business simply outcompeted by others better or newer or richer without the people in them being in any way being lazy or complacent. Also businesses often make reasonable decisions - at the time - only to find that events overtake them and they're in a worse situation than a later entrant.

Sometimes failure isn't even necessarily failure in a business sense - e.g. Betamax - didn't take off - but Sony made more money from format than any of the other VCR manufacturers did with VHS.
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Old 06-15-2011, 10:29 PM   #183
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i honestly don't see why someone would be a sony ereader.
R, Try one and you'll soon understand!
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Old 06-15-2011, 11:11 PM   #184
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Because they work and with PRS+, they work really well and have a better build quality than most others... oh and they really work, even my 505 is still working fine after more than three years and lets me happily have a pocket library that can go everywhere with me...


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i honestly don't see why someone would be a sony ereader.
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Old 06-15-2011, 11:17 PM   #185
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Because they work and with PRS+, they work really well and have a better build quality than most others... oh and they really work, even my 505 is still working fine after more than three years and lets me happily have a pocket library that can go everywhere with me...
i think the 505 is a sweet device. i guess i should lay off the sony folk. who knows. if i keep going on about how i don't trust sony, my amazon device may wind up failing, and then i would be screwed.

i originally bought and returned prs700bc at launch, and i had to wait around a year until amazon made a reader i could use and be satisfied with.
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Old 06-15-2011, 11:52 PM   #186
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Hm, so there are plenty of 6" Pearl screens, yet there is a shortage of 6" Sony Readers? (scratches head)
Yeah, this is what really got me wondering, that and the release of the cheaper Nook and Kobo. Is it the end? Dunno, but I'm glad I got an extra 650. I should be alright for 3 years or so
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Old 06-16-2011, 12:04 AM   #187
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None of the above is exclusive to Sony readers. Having used their gaming consoles for years, and their mp3-players for even longer, not to mention constant exposure to their computers through my job, the first three things you listed are typical of everything they do. Add to this that they are disturbingly arrogant and somewhat divorced from reality (they genuinely believed we would fall in love with the PS3 because it was branded "Sony") and the only reason to buy their products is the hardware quality.

It sometimes irritates me that their hardware is as reliable as it is.
^ This is an extremely concise and IMO 100% accurate breakdown of Sony, their products and their overall corporate perspective.

I am pretty much the same in terms of my [fairly deep] familiarity with Sony products.

Indeed, they make/use extremely good hardware. They also feel confident enough in their design and manufacturing and programming that they almost never issue FW updates for their consumer gear [excepting PCs/laptops], which can be very frustrating. Though Sony must also be credited for creating and pushing out a number of formats that have become global standards, they also have a history of trying to push a number of PITA proprietary digital formats on the world [the shitty ATRAC codec and of course, the hugely awful .LRF/.LRX ebook types].

But having said all that, I am not sure I would categorize Sony as necessarily being "arrogant". More like set in their ways I think, complicated of course by the often impenetrable Japanese cultural mindset IMO. I am quite sure as others are that the myths about Sony having 50-100 year business plans are not overly exaggerated. Contrast this mentality with the incredibly short-sighted view of most western companies [which are often overly obsessed with quarterly shareholder dividends]...

Sometimes it works, sometimes it don't.

Still, their overall aesthetic product design is extremely appealing, at least to me. While I love my K3, there is no doubt in my mind that the Sony eReaders are the nicest looking pieces of HW ereader gear out there ATM. I would have bought one [and prolly still will if they stay in the ereader game], but I decided that the book-specific strength of Amazon was more important than eye candy.

my 2cents, FWIW...
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Old 06-16-2011, 12:21 AM   #188
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Generally the view of people who've never started a business or taken taken a risk in my experience.

Businesses fail for many reasons, sometimes they have constraints that they simply cannot shirk which put them at a disadvantage. I've seen plenty of business simply outcompeted by others better or newer or richer without the people in them being in any way being lazy or complacent. Also businesses often make reasonable decisions - at the time - only to find that events overtake them and they're in a worse situation than a later entrant.
Yes, sometimes things happen that even the best of us cannot overcome. But often business failures are not the consequences of such fateful circumstances, but rather in the postmortem can be traced to specific mistakes made by specific people.

For instance, I believe that the origins of Borders' failure lie in the crazy decision to outsource the web sales business to their direct competitor Amazon. Saved a few million in the short run, brought down a company worth hundreds of millions - in the long run. That is called a lack of vision.

Not all errors are fatal, from many the recovery is possible. But I don't see anything wrong with exposing and discussing business mistakes, and trying to learn from them.

What's wrong with pointing out that with proper investment of capital and human resources Sony Reader could have been where Amazon Kindle is now? Well, Amazon does have a much healthier biosphere to feed off, but Sony could have made an effort on par with B&N, or at least Kobo. Sony Readers were in Borders for 5 years, and yet most Borders sales associates had no idea how to use them, and what were the ebooks all about. Remember those little kiosks with locked glass doors and always stuck demo units? Compare it to the huge front-and-center nook kiosks. Compare one-event-a-year Sony marketing effort to the nook promoting effort by B&N. Hey, perhaps Sony could have been in B&N...

Sony was not out-competed because of circumstances beyond its control, oh no! It is being out-competed as a direct result of its own overcautious marketing policies.

And the thing about user communities. How much effort does it take for a company of this size to set up a customer relations type forum? Most modern companies with online sales and marketing presence do it. But not Sony. Why not Sony?

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Old 06-16-2011, 01:13 AM   #189
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people will buy anything. sony doesn't need to work to make bank.
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Old 06-16-2011, 01:14 AM   #190
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All perfectly good questions for Sony.

My point isn't about doing post-mortems per se - they can be quite useful and in so far as you can analyse business failure post-hoc they are a useful tool but it's a bit trite to say the business fails because people were lazy and complacent. I was just pointing out that there can be many reasons why good businesses get outcompeted - and it's not my view that they should be derided for it.

For example, your point about Borders is quite instructive. I don't believe that you believe this for a moment but in essence you're saying that that one single issue alone killed Borders. In fact Amazon started with one huge advantage - no need to maintain real-estate, retail workforce etc etc and your purchase doesn't attract sales tax at source. Borders couldn't have just decided to say close all their retail stores one Saturday afternoon and go online only to compete with Amazon - even had someone wanted to.

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For instance, I believe that the origins of Borders' failure lie in the crazy decision to outsource the web sales business to their direct competitor Amazon. Saved a few million in the short run, brought down a company worth hundreds of millions - in the long run. That is called a lack of vision.
No I'd say that's called lack of a magic crystal ball - or even money. They could have set up their own web-business and cannibalised their store business - that's what B&N do with theirs (lower web prices) but it was reasonable then to think it wouldn't work - plus it may actually have been a smart thing to do a deal with Amazon to take a cut of a sale that probably would have ended up with Amazon anyway even if Borders did have their own webstore. For all I know that deal may have been the only thing that kept Borders going as long as it did.

Anyway, at the time Amazon started up there was plenty of debate about how long it would take to get online retail businesses working and a lot of debate about whether bricks and mortar was a blessing or a curse. Blockbuster tried to integrate both and lost to Netflicks - but at the time Netflicks was starting up it wasn't the received wisdom that people would want to watch a movie and then would wait 3-5 days for it - so Blockbusters plan to mix retail and online stores was reasonable - but meant a much more costly option - plus there was B&N in the retail field to compete with too.

As for Sony, seeing as the verdict here is that they have already failed in the eReader market - and I'm not trying to defend anything they have said or done recently - it may well be the case that as a corporation they are just dysfunctional and can't join the dots. I've seen that many times. That said though I'll make the following points just for perspective.....

a) The market for eBooks is still in the process of being established - in much the same way as the market for online music is. That means that issues relating to distribution, revenue sharing, copying etc etc all remain to be resolved by the market. Anyone who really thinks right now that they know how to make that business work - it's a golden opportunity to get in - there's lots of venture capital waiting for you.

b) E-Reader tech is just getting to the point where it provides an experience similar to a book - the technology is still developing and is still under some threat from lcd screens - it's by no means certain that it will continue to advance sufficiently to replace books or justify purchase of a device in addition to a computer/tablet. Could well end up a niche technology.

Personally I wouldn't assume that Sony have ceded the market just yet - I don't think the market is mature yet. After all, Apple sell books too and they're betting big on the iPad.

Finally.... Imagine Apple came out with an iPad with a combination colour pearl e-ink screen and lcd retina display in a package around 16oz or less. How many people would be looking for black and white e-readers then?

I'm off to do something more useful

Cheers!

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Old 06-16-2011, 01:28 AM   #191
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Blockbuster's problem wasn't the concept or vision, it was their timing. Neflix owns the digital movie rental market, and to try and take on an established giant on their home turf is an exercise in futility.

The reason Goliath laughed his hind parts off when David stepped up to fight him was because he knew that 99.99% of the time the boy gets crushed.
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Old 06-16-2011, 01:30 AM   #192
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Except that Blockbuster was well established - and had been for many years before Netflx appeared.
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Old 06-16-2011, 02:04 AM   #193
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^ Ah! True. But Netflix' real genius came from realizing just how lazy we humans can be, especially when combined with widespread, broadband access.

Perhaps the thought process for people was something like:
- Sure I can drive/walk/take bus to Blockbuster and rent a movie. But then I gotta get off my ass and return the damm thing.

- Hey waitasec! Now I can go online and have DVDs sent to my house and I can send 'em back in the mail too for free? And they give me an envelope too? Genius!

- Whoa. Hold on, what have we here? You're telling me I can download movies right to my computer? Now that really makes this high-speed cable I am paying for worth it.

- Awesome! Now we're cooking with gas - I never have to leave the house ever again!

...Being late to the game was only part of Blockbuster's woes I think.

<apologies for my part in derailing this thread>

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Old 06-16-2011, 02:34 AM   #194
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^ Ah! True. But Netflix' real genius came from realizing just how lazy we humans can be, especially when combined with widespread, broadband access.
Exactly. Netflix makes renting a movie quick, easy, and very convenient. One of the main hassles of renting from Blockbuster is you have to schedule a trip back within a certain amount of time, or they create an even bigger inconvenience for you. Human beings take the path of least resistance, and Netflix offers that. The reason they now rule the rental market is not because they were first, but because they did it right.
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Old 06-16-2011, 03:34 AM   #195
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I'm not actually arguing that Netflix aren't dominant - or that they shouldn't be.

My point is that when they started it's not as if it was a slam dunk that people who thought of movie renting as going down to the store and choosing from a wide selection at your fingertips were suddenly going to decide, days in advance, which movies they wanted to watch. It was a risk and it took quite some time to take off. In the meantime - and before - Blockbuster already had a load of real estate they had to utilise - so even if they had wanted to just morph into Netflix (at that time a small operation) it was by no means the only reasonable way to go. The rest is history. Doesn't mean Blockbuster were necessarily idiots or lazy or complacent.

e.g. - from a 2002 report on e-commerce
Quote:
Stores that already have an established brand and on-the-ground distribution will soon dominate over pure dotcoms, forcing the surviving dotcoms to merge with a brick-and-mortar chain, or a brand with many physical outlets.
At the start of 2002 that didn't seem an unreasonable analysis. If you bet on it though - depending on your industry you could have lost quite a lot of money - hence the dotcom crash at the start of that decade.

Cheers
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