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Old 06-09-2011, 03:53 PM   #76
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Yeah CWatkinsNash, I'm more interested in understanding, and not in critiquing....hope I didn't come across like that. I agree, it must be difficult to design/write these plugins after-the-fact, and using reverse engineering. So I would expect limitations.

RE: "the tagging".......sorry, that was a typo. I'm not using tags whatsoever...in any way. I'm only working w/ collections. I meant I had already created the To Read List values in the Kindle Collections column. Since the plugin detected both the column and the To Read List value, I just assumed it could read it into the Default list.

As to the other comments on manual data entry........what I loved about the Reading List plugin is the ability to re-order this list. This cannot be done on the Kindle. Re-ordering the Reading list is it's coolest feature. Otherwise, manual working w/ the tags and/or the collections is relatively easy w/ a small-ish database. I currently only am working with 300 books.

Lastly, I don't mind PM'ing you, etc., but this back and forth might be instructional to some that are as ignorant as me....lol...thxs.

Last edited by markdek; 06-09-2011 at 04:06 PM.
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Old 06-09-2011, 04:14 PM   #77
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Yeah CWatkinsNash, I'm more interested in understanding, and not in critiquing....hope I didn't come across like that. I agree, it must be difficult to design/write these plugins after-the-fact, and using reverse engineering. So I would expect limitations.

RE: "the tagging".......sorry, that was a typo. I'm not using tags whatsoever...in any way. I'm only working w/ collections. I meant I had already created the To Read List values in the Kindle Collections column. Since the plugin detected both the column and the To Read List value, I just assumed it could read it into the Default list.
Oh, I wasn't so much responding to any perceived criticism as I was simply explaining why some things make more sense than others, and of course, taking the opportunity to praise the software developers here.

Actually, I'm using "tags" to mean "an assigned text value used for the basis of performing an operation". LOL So in other words, we were both using "tags" to mean something other (or more than) just tags. To me, they are all tags, just in different places for different things. In this case, by "tags" I was referring to the text values that are the names of your collections - "to read list" and so on that are in your Kindle Collections column. I think that means we're on the same page, so I guess in my previous response, replace "tags" with "name of collection and/or list".

You should have seen me the first time I used (an older version of) the Reading Lists plugin. I didn't really understand the (now extinct) tag limitation at that time, and I ended up with books tagged one way, but on a different list. It was totally my own doing, and by the time I realized what was happening, Kiwidude had updated the plugin so that it did what I thought it was already doing.

Edited after seeing your edit: Ah, so you're using the Lists for somewhat different reasons than I am. That could have something to do with the fact that I'm an ebook hoarder. I don't even remember when I only had 300 books. As a result, my library needs strong-arm tactics.

I do hope others find this helpful. Sometimes I just feel like I'm far too long-winded and I'm taking up too much space with my replies. This post is no exception. I talk too much in real life too sometimes.

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Old 06-09-2011, 04:35 PM   #78
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I do so enjoy it when enthusiastic (and knowlegable) users like CWatkinsNash dive in with helping out the plugin support...

@markdek and others - all good questions. And given that this combining and integration of so many plugins is only a day or two old it would be fair to say that no-one has figured out all the uses and possibilities yet.

There could well be further tweaks to this which make it work a little better. I've already commented once on this thread about an optimisation to ensure that people who decide to retain their sync list only get items that are not already on the device synced to it. I'm still pondering on that one, as I said previously there are complications. Here are some of the variants I could do for instance...

- only sync items in your list that are not on the device. Probably suits most people. I need to ask Kovid/chaley how to identify whether a book has its 'ondevice' value set for a given book id.

- store in each list more information for each book in the list, rather than just its id. Such as an indication whether it has been synced to the device as yet. Then when you do a sync, it only sends books that according to the list it has not sent previously. So if you wanted to "force" a book to be sent again (e.g. you updated its metadata or got a better version), you could just remove/add it to the list again.

Implementing either of these options would ensure that the Kindle Collections job would not be unnecessarily triggered when you had no changes to your lists.

The last option is tempting me though it is likely the biggest amount of work. It would pave the way for future functionality related to the state of individual books on a list. For instance, a while ago someone requested the ability to define and send multiple news recipes to multiple devices. I came up with a possible way to implement that, but it would require identifying news items in your lists to be able to delete them only when a news book has been removed from all lists. That could be more easily achieved I think if I stored some further information for each book on your list. Note I am not committing to that functionality at this point as there are other complications that may need calibre additions to address, but down the line it could make sense.

So I welcome all the feedback on this thread and read with great interest what uses you all are finding for this plugin and the options it has.
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Old 06-09-2011, 05:12 PM   #79
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I do so enjoy it when enthusiastic (and knowlegable) users like CWatkinsNash dive in with helping out the plugin support...
Aw, thanks!

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Originally Posted by kiwidude View Post
@markdek and others - all good questions. And given that this combining and integration of so many plugins is only a day or two old it would be fair to say that no-one has figured out all the uses and possibilities yet.
But it's safe to say, I spend many of my waking hours figuring out all of those possibilities with maniacal glee.

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There could well be further tweaks to this which make it work a little better.
An artist is never truly done.

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- only sync items in your list that are not on the device. Probably suits most people. I need to ask Kovid/chaley how to identify whether a book has its 'ondevice' value set for a given book id.
Of the two options listed, I vote for this one.

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For instance, a while ago someone requested the ability to define and send multiple news recipes to multiple devices. I came up with a possible way to implement that, but it would require identifying news items in your lists to be able to delete them only when a news book has been removed from all lists.
This is interesting to me because I'm actually in the process of working out how best to manage my news items. I look forward to seeing where you go with this. My current most-likely method will involve the content server. My roommate has expressed interest in The New York Times, and once we get the Pandigital he can access the content server. As I have my Lists set up to allow use with the Tag Browser, they show up on the server as a category. I'm still working out the details, as usual. I can't do much until they actually send me the &^*$# Pandigital.

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So I welcome all the feedback on this thread and read with great interest what uses you all are finding for this plugin and the options it has.
Me too - answering questions from others helps me see new ways of doing things, and I love hearing how everyone else is using them.
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Old 06-09-2011, 05:50 PM   #80
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- only sync items in your list that are not on the device. Probably suits most people. I need to ask Kovid/chaley how to identify whether a book has its 'ondevice' value set for a given book id.

- store in each list more information for each book in the list, rather than just its id. Such as an indication whether it has been synced to the device as yet. Then when you do a sync, it only sends books that according to the list it has not sent previously. So if you wanted to "force" a book to be sent again (e.g. you updated its metadata or got a better version), you could just remove/add it to the list again.
As a newbie, I'm not sure how you're handling Sorting. I.E., the first time you send the full "To Read List" to the Kindle/Device, it's in the reading order that you want. If you do subsequent partial polling/syncing, how will the To Read List on the Kindle/Device be kept in the desired reading order?.

For example;

Original List:

1 Book A
2 Book B
3 Book C

New Partial List (additional books to be added from 2nd sync):

Book D
Book E
Book F

Where will books D, E, and F end up (where in the order of 6 books?) and how, and why? You're injecting a partial list into an initial reading list.

And what if I want to change up the order;

1 Book A
2 Book B
3 Book C

But, I want to change that to:

1 Book B
2 Book C
3 Book A

If I can only send to the Kindle/Device a subset (additional) of To Read List books, how can the entire To Read List be re-sorted?

This is either food for thought, or uninformed rambling.

Last edited by markdek; 06-09-2011 at 05:54 PM.
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Old 06-09-2011, 06:16 PM   #81
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@markdek - as you said yourself in an earlier post, the Kindle has no concept of reading order. So this plugin does not make any attempt to "retain it" when you sync to your device. All it can do is send the books in a list to your Kindle, the ability to order a list for that purpose is irrelevant.

So the list order is only "useful" for those who directly use Calibre, either to view their list when deciding what to read next on their Kindle, or who read books from Calibre directly.
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Old 06-09-2011, 07:50 PM   #82
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Thanks KiwiDude...
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Old 06-10-2011, 08:24 AM   #83
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Any ability to have one list update another one?

What I was thinking of is the following.

I make a list called "On Kobo" that contains all books on the Kobo (it comes in handy if you need to reload on a new device).

I have a second list "Send to Kobo" that is set to add books to the Kobo when it is plugged in, and also removes the entries after the sync.

The ability to then automatically add items that were on the "Send to Kobo" list to the "On Kobo" list (or even, the ability to automatically add / remove entries from the "On Kobo" list as books are either automatically OR manually sent to the Kobo).

Peter
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Old 06-11-2011, 12:48 AM   #84
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hi ~ two questions:

1. once i have created a reading list and it syncs to my device (kindle 3), where do i find the list on my device?
2. i had the plugin set to clear the list (and 'reading list' tag) once it was sent to the kindle - what's the purpose of this? i have it unchecked now but i'm afraid i've already lost my 100-book reading list.

thanks for any help with this ~ this is a great plugin, once i figure out how to use it that is.
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Old 06-11-2011, 02:03 AM   #85
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@mellowtrouble - please read the posts above. As I said in #81, devices such as the kindle do not have any ability to understand a reading order. So there is nowhere on the device you can see this, you can only view the order in calibre.

Clearing the list allows it to function the same as book sync of allowing you to build a list of books that you want to add to your device. While the plugin might be called Reading List, lists can be for other purposes including this one. In a future version I will add the ability for the sync to only send books from a list that are not on the device, in which case a list that is representing both books on your device and an order to read them makes sense rather than separate lists like some do now.

I am trying to think of ways the device can have the list on it. Renaming files or titles plugboard style is both messy and causes problems as books get moved on the list order etc. So not going down that route.

What I could perhaps do instead is produce a special book for your device like the Catalog feature of Calibre does. Every time a Reading List (one that is not cleared each time) is syced to your device, it could regenerate a special book in your library whose content contained a list of your books, and add that to your list of books sent to the device. That would give you something that you could then open on your device away from Calibre.

What do people think, is it worth the effort etc.
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Old 06-11-2011, 07:38 AM   #86
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Any ability to have one list update another one?
Hi Peter,

I haven't ignored your post, I'm still letting it mull over before I rush into it, as I said above it is still early days and there are some higher priority changes. Such as I mentioned above the ability to sync only the items on the list that are not already on the device. Were this functionality available then you would not need two lists, you could just have the one. The only potential downside to this is that until your device is connected then you would not know which items on your list have been sent to the device (if you care).

Even that requirement could be resolved were I to choose the second of the implementation options I mentioned above, keeping a state for each item on the list. Then on the "Edit list" dialog I could have a column which would tell you whether the book was on the device (according to the last time you plugged it in). Regardless of whether the device was connected at the time or not.

Still thinking...
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Old 06-11-2011, 08:03 AM   #87
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Even that requirement could be resolved were I to choose the second of the implementation options I mentioned above, keeping a state for each item on the list. Then on the "Edit list" dialog I could have a column which would tell you whether the book was on the device (according to the last time you plugged it in). Regardless of whether the device was connected at the time or not.

Still thinking...
That would solve some of my issues, but having separate lists is now taking care of that for me anyway. I pondered the idea of having one list update another, but if it clears after syncing then there isn't left to populate with anyway.... hence two lists for my use.
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Old 06-11-2011, 11:04 AM   #88
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What I could perhaps do instead is produce a special book for your device like the Catalog feature of Calibre does. Every time a Reading List (one that is not cleared each time) is syced to your device, it could regenerate a special book in your library whose content contained a list of your books, and add that to your list of books sent to the device. That would give you something that you could then open on your device away from Calibre.

What do people think, is it worth the effort etc.
Since I was going to do something like this manually using the Catalog feature, yeah, I think it's a great idea! Though I would like the option to generate the book manually for any list, not just automatically after syncing a list.

While I'm creating my wish list I'd like the feature to be configurable, even if only by manually editing the template file (like I do now with the catalogs). No need for a million options on the front end.
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Old 06-11-2011, 12:06 PM   #89
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I too would like it to be configurable, not only with which metadata fields to include but also for it to used for specific lists rather than the entire list of books on the device.

EDIT: Oh and it should have the ability to keep the books in the same order they are in on the list.

Nyn

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Old 06-11-2011, 01:22 PM   #90
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What I could perhaps do instead is produce a special book for your device like the Catalog feature of Calibre does. Every time a Reading List (one that is not cleared each time) is syced to your device, it could regenerate a special book in your library whose content contained a list of your books, and add that to your list of books sent to the device. That would give you something that you could then open on your device away from Calibre.

What do people think, is it worth the effort etc.
sounds excellent! i am doing that manually right now but having it made automatically would be much easier..
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