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Old 05-30-2011, 06:20 PM   #46
jocampo
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As to whether I should give this advice to someone that's learning about eReaders. Why not? This person is looking to buy books from multiple eStores.
Why not?

Because you are recommending to someone who lives in Canada to buy a brand new device which has no support on that country and has been clearly marketed for USA. I personally believe that is really irresponsible and misleading.

Regarding the address issue, it is not realistic to someone who does not live in USA to find an physical address here. Even more, with the new prices shipping with insurance and tracking will be more expensive than even the device itself.

For someone who lives in Canada, I would suggest Sony, Kindle, Kobo or even one of the less popular devices but never Nook; not because I have something against the new device or company, but because the user won't have any support whatsoever, not without shipping back.
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Old 05-30-2011, 07:06 PM   #47
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I don't know if you're aware or not but when you buy an eBook that has DRM you don't really own the book.
This is another meaningless non-issue. DRM or no, ebook or paper, you NEVER own someone else's copyrighted intellectual property. Read the copyright page of any paper book you own. You have limited rights to do certain things with the content.
You can burn the paper, you can delete file, they are yours, but the "book" never is yours unless you hold the copyright.

Let's not turn this in to a yet another one of those threads.

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But why bet when the goal is so all can enjoy a cold Dr. Pepper while reading an eBook regardless of eBook store or eReader used.
Because Dr. Pepper is even better when someone else is buying.
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Old 05-30-2011, 10:44 PM   #48
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This is another meaningless non-issue. DRM or no, ebook or paper, you NEVER own someone else's copyrighted intellectual property. Read the copyright page of any paper book you own. You have limited rights to do certain things with the content.
You can burn the paper, you can delete file, they are yours, but the "book" never is yours unless you hold the copyright.
I can tell you 100% for sure that when I buy a physical book - I own the book and can do whatever I want to the "book". That's not the case when you buy a DRM eBook - you're not allowed to alter it in anyway. I think you're missing the point here. When you buy a DRMed eBook it's like checking it out from a library, you don't really own the book (I'm not talking about the copyrights). This is a very real issue and telling people otherwise is just a flat out lie. You can remove the DRM but that's breaking the law and/or the agreement made by the eBook seller. Some are comfortable removing the DRM while others are not. That's a user choice. I'm just saying that if you want to play by the rules there's no way you can get eBooks purchased on Amazon onto another eReader - that's fact and a real issue that people face.

I'm for no one eReader, just that people should be able to use the eBooks they purchase on any eReader they decide to use. This is a real issue for those that wish to leave and/or join the Amazon eBook and/or Kindle community. I don't say that to discourage people from buying a Kindle or from using the Amazon eBook store. Rather that they are informed about what they are getting into since most don't know until after the fact.

If you care to reference what Calibre has to say about DRM you can find their link here. Their solution is to go DRM free, which I agree with but is probably very unlikely to happen or at least years away from happening.

Last edited by LucidDreams; 05-30-2011 at 11:30 PM.
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Old 05-30-2011, 11:07 PM   #49
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For someone who lives in Canada, I would suggest Sony, Kindle, Kobo or even one of the less popular devices but never Nook; not because I have something against the new device or company, but because the user won't have any support whatsoever, not without shipping back.
Tech support nowadays is almost useless, if not a joke. More so for products that are at this price level. You're also talking about a 1 year limited warranty and service (some only cover ninety days for labor). But I'm sure that if you called B&N support line they would treat you no differently outside of the USA, so long as you spoke English or Spanish. If it's a physical defect the user will have to ship back any eReader that they purchase. Some manufactures may or may not cover the return shipping, even if it's supported in another country.

The biggest concern is whether the user will want to use the embedded eBook store on the eReader (if it supports Wi-Fi and/or 3G). If that's the case, then the Nook or the Nook Touch isn't the best choice unless they have a USA military email address, those individuals can use the B&N eBook store outside of the country just fine.

Last edited by LucidDreams; 05-30-2011 at 11:52 PM.
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Old 05-30-2011, 11:43 PM   #50
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I can tell you 100% for sure that when I buy a physical book - I own the book and can do whatever I want with the "book".
You can say it. you'd be wrong. try scanning it and pasting it in its entirety on a public web site. it is ineither case a matter of being granted some rights and denied others.
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I'm just saying that if you want to play by the rules there's no way you can get eBooks purchased on Amazon onto another eReader - that's fact.
it would be a fact even without drm if the user agreement says you can only do certain things. if the agreement violates our rights then its void with or without drm. there are plenty of other threqds here were we go into detail on that. not here please.
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I'm for no one eReader, just that people should be able to use the eBooks they purchase on any eReader they decide to use. This is a real issue for those that wish to leave and/or join the Amazon eBook and/or Kindle community.
its not an issue unless the community say it is and i don't see them complaining. once again, this is my point.
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If I own a Kindle and purchased my books from Amazon's eBook store and later decide to buy a Kobo/Nook/Sony eReader then please explain to me how I can get the books I purchased onto those other devices without breaking the law or the agreement that was made to Amazon and the publisher when I purchased the eBook?
the same is true if kobo nook sony owners want to buy a kindle. unless you warn them too then you are just spreading FUD about amazon.
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Old 05-30-2011, 11:49 PM   #51
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Tech support nowadays is almost useless, if not a joke.
Utterly false. Just look at all the people on Amazon related forums complimenting Amazons support.
Support quality is factor in ereader choice.
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Old 05-31-2011, 12:13 AM   #52
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Utterly false. Just look at all the people on Amazon related forums complimenting Amazons support.
Support quality is factor in ereader choice.
We're talking two types of users here - the average user and the tech savvy user. The tech savvy user will not base so much on tech support. The average "might". In truth, the majority of the average consumers care more about price and features than anything else.

I consider the users here to be beyond the average user mark. And the support here is very good, if not equal or better than one would get with a typical company. So if someone is asking about eReaders here, if they don't label support as a key buying factor then it's not critical in the purchasing decision.
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Old 05-31-2011, 12:22 AM   #53
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You can say it. you'd be wrong. try scanning it and pasting it in its entirety on a public web site. it is ineither case a matter of being granted some rights and denied others.
it would be a fact even without drm if the user agreement says you can only do certain things. if the agreement violates our rights then its void with or without drm. there are plenty of other threqds here were we go into detail on that. not here please.

its not an issue unless the community say it is and i don't see them complaining. once again, this is my point.
the same is true if kobo nook sony owners want to buy a kindle. unless you warn them too then you are just spreading FUD about amazon.
I said what I can do TO the book. I can write in the book, I can loan the book, etc. - in other words, I OWN the physical book. With DRM eBooks if the seller doesn't want you to - you can't do any of those things since you don't own the book itself. I even specifically stated that I wasn't talking about copyrights. So you must be ignoring what I clearly stated.

You're missing the entire point that's being made here. You can talk about it all you want. I just suggest you read what Calibre has stated on their web page about DRM.
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Old 05-31-2011, 03:55 AM   #54
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I said what I can do TO the book. I can write in the book, I can loan the book, etc. - in other words, I OWN the physical book. With DRM eBooks if the seller doesn't want you to - you can't do any of those things since you don't own the book itself. I even specifically stated that I wasn't talking about copyrights. So you must be ignoring what I clearly stated.

You're missing the entire point that's being made here. You can talk about it all you want. I just suggest you read what Calibre has stated on their web page about DRM.
paper books are different than ebooks. of course there will be differences.
As for calibre's web page on drm, ive read it and i disagree with some of. calibre is amazing software. i would take kovid's opinions on ebook formats and software design as expert and pretty much authoritative. His opinions on drm law and philosophy...just the same as anyone.

and i don't think i'm ignoring anything or missing any point. i think some of what you say is misapplied here and i think your point is in conflict with what little anecdotal evidence we both have to go on.

i wonder if this is helping the op at all.

geesh i wish i could get sleep before i have to wake up. curse this kindle and its browser by my bedside!

Last edited by ApK; 05-31-2011 at 04:10 AM.
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