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Old 05-26-2011, 04:44 PM   #136
Enkidu of Abydos
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Originally Posted by ardeegee View Post
Yeah, like I said-- simplistic, black-and-white view, using an archaic, outdated and false analogy based on the actual deprivation of physical objects.

You still have your file? Then it hasn't been stolen.
My words exactly. Great avatar btw.
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Old 05-26-2011, 04:46 PM   #137
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I particularly liked the photoshop of Jack Sparrow ordering 300 Photoshops and 500 Microsoft Words.
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Old 05-26-2011, 04:50 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by leebase View Post
The old "they deserve to be stolen from" argument doesn't fly with me. Laws change.

The vast amount of piracy isn't about works of old. It's not about stealing works from the 30's or 40's. It's about getting the popular songs, music, ebooks of the here and now without paying for them.

There may well come a time when the free loaders of society become such the norm, that the producers will simply stop. The whole "I want the product of artists but don't want to pay for them" is not viable in the long term.

There are enough people who pay, who honor the value of someone else's labor -- today. But that is not a certainty for the future.

Lee
You didn't answer the question. UP to 1976, all copyrighted work was created and sold under a max copyright of 56 years. Nobody made anybody produce under those terms. Everybody did it voluntarily, eyes wide open.

Today, under those terms, everything created before 1955 would be public domain, today. Books, music, movies, pictures - all of it.

I say the fact that it isn't is Stealing, just as much as all those examples you gave. What say you?

Laws change? so if we bribed Congress to shorten copyright to 1 day, that would be Ok also? After the day, there'd be no stealing by your terms, right?

To claim the moral high ground, you must be equally moral. that means little things like honoring contracts.....
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Old 05-26-2011, 04:54 PM   #139
Enkidu of Abydos
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Originally Posted by ardeegee View Post
Yeah, like I said-- simplistic, black-and-white view, using an archaic, outdated and false analogy based on the actual deprivation of physical objects.

You still have your file? Then it hasn't been stolen.
My words exactly. Btw great avatar.

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My individual preferences suddenly matter. I want something green! No chemicals in the coffee mug process! Created from renewable materials! Manufactured by low emission processes! Certified! Organic! Stylish! Modernistic! With a touch of panache and coziness.
Wow, you're one determined coffee mug connoisseur ! I bow to your incredible expertise !
As far as me, all I care about any drink container (for water, coffee or any other edible liquid) is 1. it's big and 2. it has a wide opening.
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Old 05-26-2011, 04:59 PM   #140
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I particularly liked the photoshop of Jack Sparrow ordering 300 Photoshops and 500 Microsoft Words.
They didn't call him the greatest pirate ever to surf the seven seas for nothing !
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Old 05-26-2011, 05:06 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by Enkidu of Abydos View Post
As far as me, all I care about any drink container (for water, coffee or any other edible liquid) is 1. it's big and 2. it has a wide opening.
May I recommend Bubba Kegs?

http://www.bubbabrands.com/

Big container, wide opening, BPA-free plastic, and they insulate like nothing else. That mug of water you got before bedtime and put on your nightstand will still be cold in the morning.
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Old 05-26-2011, 05:10 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward View Post
To claim the moral high ground, you must be equally moral. that means little things like honoring contracts.....
Laws change. And this is another example of trivia being put forth as real pertinent argument. The vast majority of what is pirated has nothing to do with the difference between the dates of public domain.

Lee
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Old 05-26-2011, 05:11 PM   #143
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Your title (between your nick) is well chosen.
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Old 05-26-2011, 05:22 PM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leebase View Post
Laws change. And this is another example of trivia being put forth as real pertinent argument. The vast majority of what is pirated has nothing to do with the difference between the dates of public domain.
But you weren't going by the legal definition of "stealing;" you were using some moral/ethical claim that a different kind of activity is "stealing." You were even ignoring the areas where that activity is legal, depending on country and sometimes individual circumstances.

If the law isn't your basis for what is "stealing," what is? A lot of us think that the terms a document was published under should be its terms forever--that retroactively changing the length of copyright protection is an ex post facto law and shouldn't be allowed, and doesn't need to be honored.

It's like issuing you a driver's license good for 10 years, and then saying, "no, it's only good for the next year and a half; then you'll have to renew it." We gave those authors the right to exploit their works for 56 years, as agreed; they should release them, according to the terms of publication.

I suspect that it's not going to matter soon; I don't think Disney will succeed in extending the law again. And in the next two decades, a *frightening* amount of material is going to hit the US public domain. I expect bizarre trademark lawsuits about Mickey Mouse and Superman, as people make their own movies & novels and start selling them.
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Old 05-26-2011, 05:27 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by anamardoll View Post
May I recommend Bubba Kegs?

http://www.bubbabrands.com/

Big container, wide opening, BPA-free plastic, and they insulate like nothing else. That mug of water you got before bedtime and put on your nightstand will still be cold in the morning.
What I'd really like is one of those old wooden tankards that looks like a barrel without the top and a handle... Or a coconut mug. I once tried to make a coconut mug myself. Shaved the top off with a power tool but got a hole in the bottom after a while (there's three indentations with thin shell in the bottom).
What I really hate are those thin narrow tall glasses I often get served water in at my friends' houses or in bars. Yuch ! That's damn torture when you're thirsty ! Give me a large tankard so I can drink like a man ! Like a Viking man ! With water or ale dribbling down my chin and manly chest ! Arrrgh !
When I'm really thirsty I tend to gulp down several liters of water in 10-15 seconds in 0.3l cups. I usually drink 2-4 liters per day in the winter and 5-6 in the summer. Once I drank 10 l of water in one day, 8 of those on a hiking trip I took 2l of water on thinking it would be enough. The rest I got from others (one little boy actually gave me his 0.5l bottle when he saw I was thirsty) and from a fountain along the way.
Being given those tall narrow glasses reminds of the tale of the fox and the stork every time. You know, where the stork serves the fox soup in a narrow tall jar, and to get revenge the fox later serves the stork soup in a wide flat plate. Or vice versa maybe, not sure.
Anyway I've gotten off topic a bit...
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Old 05-26-2011, 05:29 PM   #146
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I have an example - I'd love to hear you guys take on it.

I have a friend who is a full time indie singer/entertainer. She isn't huge, no mega hits, recording contracts or anything, but she was making enough money between CD/singles sales and gigs to help support her family. She has/had a rather dedicated following in her genre for over 10 years now. She has numerous fans on facebook, twitter, etc.

A few years ago (I think 4?) she started noticing her CD/singles sales dropping, a little at a time each month but steady. She found out that her music was being pirated but it didn't bother her too much as she has a loyal following. She hoped to get additional fans from it, to be honest.

In the last few years her CD/singles sales have dropped dramatically but her gigs attendance has increased somewhat but not enough to make up for the difference. In addition she has had some family issues that require her to stop performing on a regular basis. The lack of income has driven a wedge in her family and may require that she stop creating music.

She feels that the pirating of her music (if you knew who she was you could get every song she's created from the darknet) has increased her fan base but has hurt her earning potential. She said that while a lot of people like to attend live shows, those people are not in the majority and that most people who would have bought her music now just grab a copy and then follow her on twitter (she's rather bitter about that, actually). She says that people are always telling her how they are a new fan and love her work and waiting for the next album but she hasn't sold very much.


Well, what do you think of this situation? I have left my opinion out of it, I really want to know what your take on this situation is.
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Old 05-26-2011, 05:34 PM   #147
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I'm really sorry for the lady. But have you (or her) considered other explanations for the decrease in sales other than piracy (not saying piracy doesn't have something to do with it) ?
Like the economic crisis / recession, a change of public taste, or maybe CDs are just going out of fashion ?
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Old 05-26-2011, 05:39 PM   #148
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I think she's almost certainly right, piracy, whether you define it as stealing of not, is the source of her decline in sales.

Edit: I would say though that a general decline in CD popularity might account for some of what's going on.

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Old 05-26-2011, 05:41 PM   #149
Enkidu of Abydos
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Well it's a fact the demand for many goods (especially luxurious goods) has decreased in most countries in the recent recession. So music CDs might be one of the affected goods.

P.S.
Seeing how many mistakes I'm making makes me think my brain is shutting down and I'm suffering from a lack of sleep. Goodnight folks, I'm gonna go watch a movie and then go to ...

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Old 05-26-2011, 05:45 PM   #150
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Can you clarify one thing? You say that her CD sales have fallen. Does she also sell her music on-line as mp3? I ask because CD sales are going down whilst mp3 sales are going up. In addition, more people are buying single tracks then albums. It is not clear if the loss in CD sales is being made up by the increase in mp3 sales. Possibly not--partly due to the increase in singles sales.
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