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Old 04-05-2012, 07:17 PM   #151
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Nominations will be starting soon for April, and there's two little changes in store for the spring (or fall, depending on your hemisphere).

First, I'll be dropping the post/pages icon for literary threads. Very, very minor. Now that the colours for the "literary" and "mobileread" prefixes are so distinctive, another icon to help differentiate seems extraneous.

Second, for April a nomination will require the support of four to be fully nominated instead of five and we will see how that goes.
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Old 05-01-2012, 08:42 AM   #152
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A notice for April's nominations:

The category is "region" and, like the "time period" category, there will be a ONE DAY POLL started on the sixth to determine which region we use for the month. After the poll is over on the seventh, nominations will begin.
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Old 05-19-2012, 01:55 AM   #153
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Time for change is upon us!

As mentioned in the past, this time of year when we've gone through one complete round of yearly categories will also be when we add many of any new changes that might happen. This isn't like the general book club exactly - there's no moratorium on changes throughout the year or anything like the other club - but it is nice to have one time a year when most of the changes will occur, and if we need any other changes throughout the year that's fine too.

So, to the changes. I've come up with some ideas that I think will be good for the club that I'd like us to try, after seeing the club in motion for a year. This club is different in that there are generally fewer opinions on any subject regarding club guidelines brought up. Maybe one or two posters will post their opinion on a subject, maybe none. So it's hard to put ideas out there for reactions because even if there are a few, it may take awhile and one still wonders what all the other members may think. Polls are an idea, but I'm not big on them for this club; everyone may not participate, it might be close and there may be so many subjects to get a consensus on that there end up being too many polls.

With that and the goal of being simple in mind, I think it's best to just post the ideas I have and we can try them out, and if any don't work we can always change anything back or to something different. Unlike the general club, these won't be "locked in" for an entire year if they don't work. I've paid attention over the months to what members have said and how the club has worked. My main goals with any possible changes were A) Simplicity, B) Club dynamic and energy, C) Balance between popularity and striving for high and varied literary merit, and D) Natural fit/makes sense. Posted all at once like this, it may seem like a bit to take in, but many/most are small and the few bigger ones just seem like the right direction to try. It's sort of a club "refresh".

Next month, June, is the last month of the current cycle, so it will continue just as before. I am posting these now so everyone will have plenty of time (over a month) to see them and discuss them if they want. If any of you have any ideas or opinions please feel free to share! This will go into effect the following month - July.


So without further ado, the changes:


Thread titles will no longer include "The MR Literary Club" - It is redundant. Everything in this forum is a club, and there is a coloured "literary" prefix at the beginning of every thread of ours. This is in the interest of simplicity and making the forum easier to read with less title clutter, and is a small thing.


Lottery Refresh - I originally came up with the lottery idea to appease those founding members who preferred we forgo nominations and voting altogether and just have a different member choose a selection each month as our pick. Unfortunately, the lottery has had a bit of a bad time about it. The selections have been great but the process and participation have not gone so well. I'm not prepared to give up on the idea yet, but I am prepared to cut it from three times a year to once a year and to refresh the rules to be easier and simpler.


Slight Categories Refresh - Eliminating two lottery months leaves us room for two new categories. "Region" went well this year and since each region month would be different (new region), I think having it twice a year would be good. For the other slot, there's a new category - "Contemporary".

Also people didn't like "Plays" and "Non-Fiction" side-by-side, and to boot the general club moved their non-fiction month to the same month as ours, so I've moved "Non-Fiction".

Here's the updated categories list:
(changes marked with *)

July - Highly Challenging
August - Lottery
September - Contemporary*
October - Plays
November - Region*
December - Open
January - Poetry
February - Time Period
March - Non-Fiction*
April - Obscure
May - Region
June - Short


Voting polls will be multiple choice - This is the first real change. Why should we limit our votes? This will give people a chance to vote for any and all selections they'd like to support. You can still just vote for your one favourite if you like, or if you prefer, you can vote for your two favourites, or your four favourites; it's your choice. It seems like this would give a more accurate representation to the support each selection really has and also will still give a chance to those nominees that might not get votes right away (since with only one vote per person, people are often tempted to use it on one of the nominees in the lead). This is a trial - we can try it and see how it goes and how we like it.


Voting polls will be open - A small change, but noticeable because the issue has been debated. But now that we'll be using multiple choice, there seems to be no reason for hidden votes, because people can still support their favourite no matter what. Also, open votes can be fun to watch and can encourage discussion while the vote is occurring.


Nominations will last three days and voting will last two days - I've really considered this one because I want to be careful to still give time for all members to participate in nominating and voting, but I want to balance that with hopefully keeping a good pace for the proceedings. I originally chose the time periods for each based on the general club's guidelines, but the general club's nominations are almost always done in two days or so anyway. Five days for nominations, when they last the whole five days and have stretches of days with no posts, just seems too much. I think three is sufficient for everyone to be able to participate. Similarly, I've noticed the third day of voting often has zero votes. I don't want to prevent anyone who wants to from voting, but I think two days is sufficient. Example - The most recent voting polls for May, we had fifteen votes over a three day period. However, the run-off got sixteen votes, and it only lasted a day.


The discussion thread for a month's chosen selection will begin just after it is chosen - The second real change. This also could be a change in the way of thinking about the discussion threads. I've noticed in the main Reading Recommendations forum that a few different and varied threads have been started where people are discussing a book before, during and after they read it. Local book clubs (which we copied) have always had a system where a book is chosen, the members read it at home through the month, then they all have a get-together to discuss it. But during the month some may call each other up and chat about the book and so on. And the order for the club is out of necessity - they can't physically meet together to discuss it all throughout the month, so they must settle on a day to get together. The internet changed all that for us - We do not have those physical barriers of needing to all meet together once a month, nor of having to wait til we're all finished to begin discussing it, when we may have forgotten little things we wanted to say while reading it. We can post and contribute whenever we want any time we want, so why not start the discussion thread right away? My hope is that this might encourage more discussion, which is always a good thing. This is also a trial - we can try it and see how it goes and how we like it.


The nominations threads will now start on the 1st of each month - Since discussion threads will now start just after the selection is chosen, they won't start on the 1st anymore. So for simplicity, we can now start our nominations on the 1st. Which, with the new timelines, will give us a chosen selection within the first week of the month. Then the discussion thread will begin and we'll have all the rest of the actual calendar month to read and discuss the book, so it all just feels right.


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Old 05-19-2012, 04:31 AM   #154
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sunsurfer,
first of all I'd like to thank you again for all the time and effort you are devoting and have been devoting to this book club, and kept us going: THANK YOU!

As for your ideas, I think I am up for most of them, with some comments:

- Thread titles will no longer include "The MR Literary Club" ; OK

- Lottery Refresh: open mind on this one. I see the problems you mention, but I am not sure that concentrating it in one month would make a difference. One alternative could be that all members are included in the draw by default, and can opt out if they wish from the lottery month. Now how to know who all members are? It could be all those who nominated in the previous months (I think there may be noise in voting), or perhaps we could all "sign up" in this thread, but it may be intimidating for new members to put them forward - those who nominated in the previous month seems to me easier to implement, and we can also provide a reminder in the July nomination thread that if you want to opt out from the lottery, this is the time to do so.

- Slight Categories Refresh : OK, though I would swap July and August, as I have more time in August to go for a Highly challenging read, and I suspect this may be the case for other people too, but if I am in a minority then no problem.

Agree with all the rest of your proposals
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Old 05-19-2012, 04:56 AM   #155
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Excellent work sun surfer. I like all of your suggestions, and particularly:

Voting polls will be multiple choice - this is a brilliant enhancement, and should encourage less tactical voting.

Voting polls will be open - I agree that this is more fun, and stimilulates debate.

The discussion thread for a month's chosen selection will begin just after it is chosen - I often find that by the time we get to the discussion, I have forgotten just what I want to say, even if I kept notes (which I usually do) or have less enthusiasm for fully explaining my thoughts.

A big .
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Old 05-19-2012, 07:23 AM   #156
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Can we get some wording to stress more ebook choices?

Thanks.
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Old 05-19-2012, 09:35 AM   #157
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Sun Surfer, I in general like your ideas, and certainly think it is worth while to give it all a try. Some thoughts I have though, including considering some of the subsequent comments:


Isn't “Contemporary” a “Time Period”? I know that some people prefer not to read literature written before they graduated high school so I like the idea of a month devoted to Contemporary literature, but maybe then drop that time frame from the “Time Period?”

Love the idea of multiple choice and open voting!

With regards to the “Region” category, now that the procedure for dividing the world into regions is done (complete with that spiffy map), maybe we could just rotate through regions, selecting a random region not yet covered, until all have been selected once?

I like Paola's suggestion about including all active members in the lottery unless they decide to opt out.

The reduced time frame for nominations and voting seems like a good idea to me. Those who are likely to participate generally follow things close enough to be able to get there input posted in a timely manner anyway.

Starting the discussion thread as soon as the selection for the month is made sounds good to me. The question becomes should those who tend to finish the book quickly make generous use of spoiler tags, or just let people realize that the whole thread maybe full of spoilers from the start?


I personally think limiting selections to those available as an ebook is a dumb idea since this has nothing to do with the quality of the book as literature. I would anticipate that this would be a particularly restrictive requirement for books not originally written in English. I know that others have string opinions the other way. Maybe this is one idea worth putting to a vote among those who have been active members over the past year?
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Old 05-19-2012, 09:42 AM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamlet53 View Post
I personally think limiting selections to those available as an ebook is a dumb idea since this has nothing to do with the quality of the book as literature. I would anticipate that this would be a particularly restrictive requirement for books not originally written in English. I know that others have string opinions the other way. Maybe this is one idea worth putting to a vote among those who have been active members over the past year?
I agree. I'm happy to track down a pBook if I want to read it enough. And if I don't, I'll opt out of that month's selection. No big deal.
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Old 05-19-2012, 09:45 AM   #159
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I'm not sun surfer, but I believe the idea behind region has always been to eliminate a region once it's been picked, so that eventually we get to them all.
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Old 05-19-2012, 12:11 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by Hamlet53 View Post
...


I personally think limiting selections to those available as an ebook is a dumb idea since this has nothing to do with the quality of the book as literature. I would anticipate that this would be a particularly restrictive requirement for books not originally written in English. I know that others have string opinions the other way. Maybe this is one idea worth putting to a vote among those who have been active members over the past year?
I think limiting the vote to "active members" is an idiotic, stupid, and assinine proposal.
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Old 05-19-2012, 02:35 PM   #161
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I think limiting the vote to "active members" is an idiotic, stupid, and assinine proposal.
Again, not sun surfer, but the only aspect where the choice would be limited to active members is the lottery month, the month where one member picks the selection. No voting on the choice (for anyone, active member or not); the discussion open to all. I think the only question is what constitutes an active member.

Otherwise, all votes would be open to all comers, and welcome. The more, the merrier. Sun surfer of course can correct me if I've got something wrong.
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Old 05-19-2012, 02:49 PM   #162
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issybird, I was responding to this ignorant idea:

Quote:
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...

Maybe this is one idea worth putting to a vote among those who have been active members over the past year?
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Old 05-19-2012, 02:55 PM   #163
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issybird, I was responding to this ignorant idea:
I don't think it's ignorant. What he suggesting is asking people who have had experience of the way things have worked in the past, to see what their views are. It may not be to your taste, but it's not ignorant.
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Old 05-19-2012, 03:06 PM   #164
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Sorry, poor choice of words. Maybe assinine, or dumb, or stupid.

Anyway, hope you guys enjoy your club. It was fun for a while, but I think I'll stick to the other club.
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Old 05-20-2012, 03:11 AM   #165
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The question becomes should those who tend to finish the book quickly make generous use of spoiler tags, or just let people realize that the whole thread maybe full of spoilers from the start?
second that - on pbook vs ebook: I do have a strong preference for ebooks on the basis of convenience, but would not want to restrict our choices to this - and besides the reasons already put forward, there are geographical restrictions, too, so that e.g. turn magic wheel was only available as pbook for me (same for this book choice).
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