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Old 05-11-2011, 03:46 PM   #61
anamardoll
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Not sure how keen I am on the Amazon app store. I haven't really bothered with it because I haven't seen anything on there that I can't get the same or similar on Google market.

The biggest reason I put CM7 on my Nook Color after the NC update came out wasn't so much because the NC app store was laughably anemic, but because I didn't see any reason to buy QuickOffice again. It's purchased on my Google Market account and every android device I use has a nice little link to my paid app right there in the Google Market.

I guess if you didn't already have an android smart phone / tablet, then switching to the B&N app store or the Amazon app store would make sense, but if you're already invested, you're not going to want to switch. Indeed, I figured Amazon's "daily free app!!!!!" promotion was to combat this very issue (i.e., why would I buy X again??).

So, long story short, if an Amazon tablet didn't allow access to the Google market without fiddling, I have to think at this late stage that would lose several potential customers.
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Old 05-11-2011, 04:08 PM   #62
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anamardoll, I agree.

If Amazon puts out an open tablet I'll be interested. If I have to root it to get full use out of it, Ill have to think twice. I'm in the market for a tablet, and while I really like the iPad2's hardware, I'm not interested in bowing and scraping to Apple to use it.
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Old 05-11-2011, 04:25 PM   #63
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anamardoll, I agree.

If Amazon puts out an open tablet I'll be interested. If I have to root it to get full use out of it, Ill have to think twice. I'm in the market for a tablet, and while I really like the iPad2's hardware, I'm not interested in bowing and scraping to Apple to use it.
Right! And that's the thing: tablet shoppers want different things from the market.

1. Some people want a cheap android tablet that they can do whatever they want to, even if it takes some fiddling: these people have likely bought the Nook Color.

2. Some people want a fully functional out-of-the-box android tablet that they can do whatever they want to without fiddling: these people have bought a Galaxy Tab.

3. Some people want a shiny tablet that has an established following and runs the Apple app store: these people have an iPad.

Unless Amazon is willing to make a "Galaxy Tab" (i.e., full functionality) for the "Nook Color" price (i.e., competitively priced), it seems like their market share will be limited to people who:

A. Want a tablet and trust Amazon to provide a solid functionality for their first foray into the android tablet/smart phone world.

B. Want a tablet to mod and for whatever reason (hardware differences?) didn't get a Nook Color.

C. Want an Amazon tablet and don't mind re-buying all their apps (or they have all they want from the free-a-day promotion).

Even if you're using the Kindle app, Cloud Storage, Video on Demand, Music Streaming, and all the other bells and whistles from Amazon, I *think* you can already access all those things on a Galaxy Tab or a modded Nook Color.

Who knows - maybe they'll release a $100 tablet that's ad supported.
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Old 05-11-2011, 05:44 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by anamardoll View Post
Unless Amazon is willing to make a "Galaxy Tab" (i.e., full functionality) for the "Nook Color" price (i.e., competitively priced), it seems like their market share will be limited to people who:

A. Want a tablet and trust Amazon to provide a solid functionality for their first foray into the android tablet/smart phone world.

B. Want a tablet to mod and for whatever reason (hardware differences?) didn't get a Nook Color.

C. Want an Amazon tablet and don't mind re-buying all their apps (or they have all they want from the free-a-day promotion).
That's what I think, too. The question is, what happens when they're done selling tablets to all 100 of the people who fall into these categories? (And that's probably being generous.)
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Old 05-11-2011, 05:51 PM   #65
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I think the potential market is a lot more than 100. If Amazon puts out a good quality tablet at a reasonable price, they'll sell a bunch of them. If this theoretical tablet isn't locked down, then they'll sell a few more to people like me. But I'm probably not the primary consumer type they'll be aiming for.
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Old 05-11-2011, 06:02 PM   #66
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I think the potential market is a lot more than 100. If Amazon puts out a good quality tablet at a reasonable price, they'll sell a bunch of them.
The problem I see is that it's going to take more than a quality tablet at a reasonable price. Arguably, there are already tablet makers doing that (e.g., Motorola), and they're getting creamed by the iPad, from what I understand. The Nook Color is doing reasonably well (again, from what I understand), but that's mostly an e-reader, out of the box. They're going to have to settle for the scraps from people who haven't already bought into some form of tablet, but want to, and do it at a price that beats the Nook Color. I just don't see that pool of people as being very large. If they sell a tablet that's not locked down, I don't think they can sell it at a Nook Color price.

The more I look at this, the smaller the set of potential users becomes.

I see ANDs between A, B, and C, rather than ORs.

If they can somehow develop a full-function tablet (e.g., with the Android Market, multitouch, etc.), and keep it at Nook Color price level, then they may have something. But I think that if that could be done, B&N would've already done that with the Nook Color.

It would be interesting to know how many people bought Archos tablets, because that's where I see this fitting in.
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Old 05-11-2011, 09:53 PM   #67
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Honestly, I've never considered the utility of tits on a boarhog.
I'd bet a newborn boarhog would find them quite useful.

As to Amazon selling an Amazon branded tablet, how is that different from anyone else selling a tablet? Seems to be working for B&N though to be fair I tossed their software off of mine. They appear to sell a ton of black and white Kindles even though it's locked down for drm ebooks. If people see this as a color Kindle that can do much more it doesn't seem like too hard of a sell. A lot of people post on their boards "where's the color?" They've already got their name, their store, and their existing customer base going for them. They have music, video and ebooks stores already available. If the device is in the ballpark with the NC on price and quality it will probably do well. If they add something new then it has an even better chance.

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Old 05-11-2011, 11:23 PM   #68
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As to Amazon selling an Amazon branded tablet, how is that different from anyone else selling a tablet?
It's not. That's my point. If their tablet doesn't do anything more than anyone else's tablet, what's the draw, other than the Amazon logo?


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Seems to be working for B&N though to be fair I tossed their software off of mine. They appear to sell a ton of black and white Kindles even though it's locked down for drm ebooks. If people see this as a color Kindle that can do much more it doesn't seem like too hard of a sell.
I think the fact that they sell a lot of B&W Kindles actually works against them selling a color tablet. Their marketing has been very forceful (and effective) in touting the benefits of e-ink over LCD screens for reading. As far as doing much more, I'm not sure about that. It seems to me that you could only make that case if it was relatively open. If it's locked down like the Nook Color, and has to be rooted, they're playing to the same crowd who buys Nook Colors. And wouldn't those people already have them?

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Originally Posted by TheJohnNewton View Post
A lot of people post on their boards "where's the color?" They've already got their name, their store, and their existing customer base going for them. They have music, video and ebooks stores already available. If the device is in the ballpark with the NC on price and quality it will probably do well. If they add something new then it has an even better chance.
As I've said, the argument that they've got a lot of services they can push to a tablet is a little bit weak. Any Android tablet, including a $100 Chinese knockoff, can access the same applications once you root it (which you would probably have to do with the Amazon tablet anyway).

Basically, the problem I see for Amazon is that they're reduced to selling to people who haven't already been sold on the Nook Color, and if they can't discount the price significantly, I don't see what's going to bring these people into the fold.
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Old 05-11-2011, 11:32 PM   #69
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It's not. That's my point. If their tablet doesn't do anything more than anyone else's tablet, what's the draw, other than the Amazon logo?
Amazon's customer service maybe?




I personally hope it isn't something to compete with the NookColor specs wise. The NC is nice for what it is, but it could use more horsepower when used as a full tablet. It would be nice if Amazon's tablet were bigger than the NC, but priced less than the iPad.
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Old 05-11-2011, 11:34 PM   #70
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The trouble with that logic is that the Nook Color isn't a tablet, it's an ereader with some tablet functionality. I don't think rooting counts for anything, to be honest. How many people out of the general public have the interest and ability to root anything? I'd say not very many at all. Even on this forum, with all our technically sophisticated users, many don't understand how rooting works or want to do it.
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Old 05-12-2011, 02:07 AM   #71
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Amazon sells all sorts of content, not just books. The advantage of having their own tablet is that you could theoretically access all the media you've bought from them, not just books (like a regular Kindle).

This is an area where Sony has really bungled. They are a music company and a movie company, yet these divisions are separated from the book division and vice versa. The gaming side is somewhat integrated, for instance, you can buy or rent a movie from Sony on your PSP or PS3. But you can buy comics for your PSP but can't read them on a Sony e-reader, nor can you read books for your Sony e-reader on your PSP (or PS3 - probably only useful for big color books, but who knows?)

Beyond that, tablets are either vastly overpriced, or cheap junk. If they can offer something as quality as the Nook Color, but an actual tablet for a similar price, they can be a winner.
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Old 05-12-2011, 07:46 AM   #72
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Amazon's customer service maybe?


That was a joke, right? I hope to god that was a joke. I'm an Amazon Vine member and an Amazon Top Reviewer, and as such I have to deal with their CS a lot (like, twice a month, at least) and it's gone from "decent" a few years back to horrendous. The entire Vine program is almost literally staffed by auto-answer emails and one guy who can't speak English fluently enough to parse, understand, and answer complex questions.

(I'm serious, the Viners have started comparing notes and seeing that the email signature is the same guy each time. He's very nice, but the disconnect is a mjor problem - simple things like "can we throw away our ARCs when we're done with them" have been TERRIBLY hard to resolve.)

B&N CS, on the other hand, gets you someone who speaks English and understands your question, but you have to wait on the phone for 2 hours (true story) to get them. Neither companies offer what I consider good service, imho.

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The trouble with that logic is that the Nook Color isn't a tablet, it's an ereader with some tablet functionality. I don't think rooting counts for anything, to be honest. How many people out of the general public have the interest and ability to root anything? I'd say not very many at all. Even on this forum, with all our technically sophisticated users, many don't understand how rooting works or want to do it.
You don't have to root at all - you can run CM7 off an SD card. It's easy and it takes 20 minutes.

http://www.anamardoll.com/2011/04/er...e-on-nook.html

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Amazon sells all sorts of content, not just books. The advantage of having their own tablet is that you could theoretically access all the media you've bought from them, not just books (like a regular Kindle).
This is true, but all their content is already available on iPads, Galaxy Tabs, and modded Nook Colors, no?

Unless Amazon integrates their services BETTER with their tablet than with the existing tablets out there, this stops being a draw, to my mind. And it's hard to imagine how they'll integrate better or more fully at this point - you can get an Amazon Kindle app on any tablet, an Amazon MP3 app on any tablet, I'm sure they'll have an Amazon Cloud app and an Amazon Video app in due time.

Either they withdraw from the Google Market to make their tablet seem shinier (and lose potential business from people who can't/won't replace their tablet with an Amazon tablet) or they keep their apps on all tablets, in which case their tablet will have to distinguish itself in some other way.

I would think they could make a killing with a competitive pricing scheme, but I felt they fumbled that with the ad-Kindle by not making it the magic $99, so I don't know what the plan is.
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Old 05-12-2011, 08:08 AM   #73
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Amazon will produce a 7" tablet. If successful (and I don't see why it wouldn't be), they'll produce 10" and 4.3" versions.
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Old 05-12-2011, 09:37 AM   #74
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That was a joke, right? I hope to god that was a joke. I'm an Amazon Vine member and an Amazon Top Reviewer, and as such I have to deal with their CS a lot (like, twice a month, at least) and it's gone from "decent" a few years back to horrendous. The entire Vine program is almost literally staffed by auto-answer emails and one guy who can't speak English fluently enough to parse, understand, and answer complex questions.

(I'm serious, the Viners have started comparing notes and seeing that the email signature is the same guy each time. He's very nice, but the disconnect is a mjor problem - simple things like "can we throw away our ARCs when we're done with them" have been TERRIBLY hard to resolve.)

B&N CS, on the other hand, gets you someone who speaks English and understands your question, but you have to wait on the phone for 2 hours (true story) to get them. Neither companies offer what I consider good service, imho.



You don't have to root at all - you can run CM7 off an SD card. It's easy and it takes 20 minutes.

http://www.anamardoll.com/2011/04/er...e-on-nook.html



This is true, but all their content is already available on iPads, Galaxy Tabs, and modded Nook Colors, no?

Unless Amazon integrates their services BETTER with their tablet than with the existing tablets out there, this stops being a draw, to my mind. And it's hard to imagine how they'll integrate better or more fully at this point - you can get an Amazon Kindle app on any tablet, an Amazon MP3 app on any tablet, I'm sure they'll have an Amazon Cloud app and an Amazon Video app in due time.

Either they withdraw from the Google Market to make their tablet seem shinier (and lose potential business from people who can't/won't replace their tablet with an Amazon tablet) or they keep their apps on all tablets, in which case their tablet will have to distinguish itself in some other way.

I would think they could make a killing with a competitive pricing scheme, but I felt they fumbled that with the ad-Kindle by not making it the magic $99, so I don't know what the plan is.
I have no idea what Amazon Vine is, have never heard of it. I'm an Amazon Prime member, and have rarely had to use customer service. I think those of us who have Kindles and are familiar with that side of the customer service house, which is very, very different than the other side of the house, are talking about that. and Kindle CS, is absolutely over the top incredibly good
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Old 05-12-2011, 09:51 AM   #75
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That was a joke, right? I hope to god that was a joke.
No, it was not a joke. Amazon in general is considered to have some of the best CS out there. Sounds like the Vine program has their own Rep and I can't comment on that, but don't see what it has to do with their Kindle Support folks.


Quote:
B&N CS, on the other hand, gets you someone who speaks English and understands your question, but you have to wait on the phone for 2 hours (true story) to get them. Neither companies offer what I consider good service, imho.
There have been numerous articles and blog postings about the craptasticness of B&N's CS, thankfully I've never had to use them.



Don't get me started on Kobo support though. Has to be the absolute worst out there.
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