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Old 04-28-2011, 12:59 PM   #31
twowheels
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Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan View Post
Then what are you two doing here? Fine, you've registered your distaste at my personal opinions (which neither of you have depicted accurately, I might add). You're just being trolls here. You can go now.
I'm here because I am interested, in general, in the topic. If you have no interest in knowing why people aren't interested in reading your books, then why are you wasting bandwidth with the question?

Early yesterday was the first time I'd noticed your posts on this forum, and thus the first I'd heard of your work. Seeing that you were struggling and that you wrote SF (which is my favorite genre) I had the Amazon page open, was reading the reviews, and was considering buying one of your books -- and then I read your posts, particularly the one about how the Internet should be locked down, and I closed the Amazon page having made my decision.

I often seek out materials to read written by people who express ideas that I disagree with, but not my light fiction.
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Old 04-28-2011, 01:02 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan View Post
Image can be a difficult thing. Do you give people actual opinions when they ask for them? Or do you just smile a big, toothy smile and utter popular platitudes, just before shoving your books back under their noses?
Or do you take a middle ground because you are a professional and are trying to present yourself that way? People have to do this all the time for all sorts of jobs. It's part of life. If you truly want this to be a paying career for you, you have to play the game a little. Start thinking of yourself as a businessman rather than as a special snowflake.
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Old 04-28-2011, 01:04 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan View Post
Image can be a difficult thing. Do you give people actual opinions when they ask for them? Or do you just smile a big, toothy smile and utter popular platitudes, just before shoving your books back under their noses?
Depends how wildly your views differ from those of your readers (or potential readers). Like it or not, everything you say in public will be seen by them and they will form an opinion based on snippets quoted out of context.

A good example would be James Follett's posts on usenet
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Old 04-28-2011, 01:08 PM   #34
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"Snowflake"?

So: I'll say nothing except what the world-at-large expects me to say, thereby giving the impression to the world that I am hiding behind a cardboard "professional persona."

And you guys think that's a good thing.

Last edited by Steven Lyle Jordan; 04-28-2011 at 01:11 PM.
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Old 04-28-2011, 01:11 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by twowheels View Post
I had the Amazon page open, was reading the reviews, and was considering buying one of your books -- and then I read your posts, particularly the one about how the Internet should be locked down, and I closed the Amazon page having made my decision.
Then you'll really love this bit of Orwellian fascism:

http://www.rightbrane.com/StevenLyle...biometrics.htm
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Old 04-28-2011, 01:14 PM   #36
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I don't consider $3 to be expensive myself although I do admit that for me the 99c price is the "why the heck not" price that someone else mentioned.

Perhaps doing that for the first book of the series isn't such a bad idea - not temporarily but permanently.
That's the one. But make it your best book, not your worst. The free (or cheap) book is the best advertising you can have for the others.
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Old 04-28-2011, 01:20 PM   #37
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Steven, nobody is saying be a robot and never say another word. What I (and, it seems, other people as well) are merely pointing out to you---since you asked---is that IF you aim to treat this as a job, a business and a living, you have to be mindful of how you come across. And if you come across in your message board posts as hostile, defensive and argumentative, people will read that and say to themselves 'well, I don't want to spend 300 pages with THAT guy!'

Look, we all have to play ball sometimes, in every job, in every career, in every business. It doesn't mean that you can never have an opinion. It just means that you have to be aware of how you come across, and sometimes you may have to choose to stay out of the fray on something.
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Old 04-28-2011, 01:28 PM   #38
Steven Lyle Jordan
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Originally Posted by ficbot View Post
Steven, nobody is saying be a robot and never say another word...
Actually, I read it as a recommendation to be a cardboard cutout and say happy-pretty-happy things. Not quite the same as a silent robot.

You can probably tell that the prospect of pretending to be something I'm not, or hiding behind a false persona, is not something I like to do. Mea Culpa. To me, this does not represent the power of the web; it represents its most damaging feature. It's kind of hard for me to get into it, for any reason.

Well, I guess I've ticked someone else off with that last remark. My bad, again.
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Old 04-28-2011, 01:33 PM   #39
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Actually, I read it as a recommendation to be a cardboard cutout and say happy-pretty-happy things. Not quite the same as a silent robot.

You can probably tell that the prospect of pretending to be something I'm not, or hiding behind a false persona, is not something I like to do. Mea Culpa. To me, this does not represent the power of the web; it represents its most damaging feature. It's kind of hard for me to get into it, for any reason.

Well, I guess I've ticked someone else off with that last remark. My bad, again.
I think it's ok to speak your mind, even though I don't agree with your views on copyright enforcement. Your opinions don't drive me away from your work. I can separate things.
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Old 04-28-2011, 01:35 PM   #40
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I don't think that the two things are separable. Look at the fact that some of the most popular SF writers today are also prolific bloggers with large followings-- Cory Doctorow, Charles Stross, John Scalzi, and Peter Watts, for examples. People go out of their way to support and defend those writers because they agree with their ideas and opinions, not just because they spin a good yarn. If you want the support of the (generally) liberal and tech-savvy SF audience, then loudly and constantly lobbying for Big Brother to control the internet is absolutely the worst possible thing to do.
I don't even know the opinions of most of the authors I read. The only one who I decided to stop reading because of his opinions/behavior was L. Ron Hubbard, and I don't think I've read him since I was 15 or so (~ 25 years ago).

Someone expressing an opinion I don't like is only an issue if the person is a columnist (in which case that's what they're writing about) or if, like Elron, they actually have actions that I find deplorable. But liberal or conservative doesn't bother me in a fiction writer.

Of course, it's been a while since I've been into sci-fi. Maybe they're a different lot.
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Old 04-28-2011, 01:35 PM   #41
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I admit, I don't have an answer to your troubles, but perhaps the problem is as you have previously written: the books simply aren't that good.

I don't know how good or bad they are. I tried Onuissance [spelling?] once, but it wasn't my kind of book and so I never read more than a few pages. Maybe you should rework them to broaden their appeal.

Consider writing blog articles. You are always on, for example, Teleread. Why not start your own blog and try to get other blogs to pick up your articles along with a mention of your books.

I suspect that a large part of the problem, one that you and other authors face, is that with so much self-published work available, you only have a quick, short window of opportunity to attract and hold readers. As I said, Onuissance didn't grab me and because it didn't, I have never looked further at your work. But then, I'm not a scifi fan as much a fantasy fan. OTOH, like a previous poster to this thread, Shayne Parkinson's Sentence of Marriage series not only captured me to the point I purchased all of her other available books even before finishing Sentence of Marriage, but here it is a year later and I can still recall the characters and story and will think about doing something I rarely do -- reread the books.

I would also say about Parkinson's books this: Until I read her books, I hadn't read any historical fiction in 10+ years. What caught me immediately was the title -- it is catchy -- and then the writing.

So perhaps your books should be freshly looked at and reworked. I don't know but if they aren't lighting a fire in their current state, perhaps that is the solution.

One other thought. As I recall, you have said you self-edited the books. Perhaps you need a more disinterested eye to edit them.
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Old 04-28-2011, 01:51 PM   #42
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Pay attention to Richard, he always gives good advise!!!
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Old 04-28-2011, 02:08 PM   #43
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I don't even know the opinions of most of the authors I read. The only one who I decided to stop reading because of his opinions/behavior was L. Ron Hubbard, and I don't think I've read him since I was 15 or so (~ 25 years ago).
I still like Battlefield Earth, I've read it quite a few times now, and owned a few copies of it too (the paperbacks tend to fall apart). Mission Earth I've tried a few times to get into it but it's hard to get past all the pet hates he wrote into it. I suppose it would be easier for people who shared those pet hates. I don't remember ever reading anything else he wrote. His barmy religion didn't really put me off.
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Old 04-28-2011, 02:19 PM   #44
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I still like Battlefield Earth, I've read it quite a few times now, and owned a few copies of it too (the paperbacks tend to fall apart). Mission Earth I've tried a few times to get into it but it's hard to get past all the pet hates he wrote into it. I suppose it would be easier for people who shared those pet hates. I don't remember ever reading anything else he wrote. His barmy religion didn't really put me off.
I thought some of Mission Earth was funny. I remember really liking Battlefield Earth.

The fact that his religion is wacky isn't what turned me off. What turned me off was the positive harm he did by a) taking people's money to a degree that would embarrass even a televangelist, and b) doing his best to convince people that no one needs or should be taking psychiatric medication. I consider that kind of thing unforgivable.

As far as I can tell, he used his sci-fi writing for evil when he figured out how to do it. That Xenu nonsense isn't something he could ever get away with if he called it fiction.
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Old 04-28-2011, 02:45 PM   #45
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I don't even know the opinions of most of the authors I read. The only one who I decided to stop reading because of his opinions/behavior was L. Ron Hubbard, and I don't think I've read him since I was 15 or so (~ 25 years ago).
I refuse to read L. Ron Hubbard, specifically due to his 'religion'. IIRC Dianetics started it and I happen to have a copy laying around somewhere. I avoid that book every time I see it.

Mr. Jordan, I just wanted to add one thing to the whole topic of what you say. Again, I dont know much. But as I read all those posts I recalled one thing. You dont want to go into Anne Rice / Laurell K Hamilton territory. Thats been already treaded in the other thread, I know, but I just wanted to reiterate it. Thankfully youre nowhere near there.
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