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Old 04-13-2011, 01:56 AM   #46
Worldwalker
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Originally Posted by Elfwreck View Post
If the first attempt didn't go through, then the double-purchase is likely an accidental double-click, and not Kobo's fault (although they still should not have deleted the card sale; they need customer service reps who can tell the difference between "I'm unhappy with this purchase" and "I demand a refund.")
Well, I don't have to reiterate my opinions of any of the big bookstores her,e I'm sure. It's not like they're any secret. And my opinion of customer service reps as a class is not exactly positive either. I'm trying to get AT&T to understand "I do not want to do business with you again. Ever." They don't seem to get the point. *sigh* What part of "die in a fire" do some of these people not get? (and don't get me started on Dell)

As far as the difference between unhappiness and refunds ... well, it's not all that easy to figure out which was involved from the emails the OP provided. Most people, if they accidentally make a double purchase, just want the extra canceled. It's kind of an "oops, I didn't mean to do that, could you make it go away?" kind of thing. So, despite my opinion of CSRs as a species, I'm not going to fault this one for believing that the OP wanted to do what everyone else in the same position does, which is cancel the spurious purchase. That's what a quick reading of the emails looked like to me. I don't think anyone here would expect to cancel the payment but keep the gift card, so I'm not all that surprised that it never crossed the CSR's mind.

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If, however, the first purchase hung in the system and didn't complete until the second one was made, then it's Kobo's fault, and they should eat the cost for the extra card.
I do speak software, and I can't think of an easy or probable way for it to hang fire like that. And if it was in the habit of doing that, there would be a flurry of identical problems every time their CC clearinghouse glitched, or whatever else borked the original transaction, and they'd fix it. As a general rule, companies try to keep their customer service headaches to a minimum (which mostly involves trying to pretend they do not actually have customers, but that's another rant entirely). They're not going to put up with a script that generates irate customers on the phone when it should be generating sales in the bank, and I can't think of any way it's likely to be doing that anyway.

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I don't speak software; cannot imagine how one would resolve this. Good customer service would involve "oh, hell, just give her the damn card"--because as it stands, she's not likely to buy more cards in the future for other family members, and neither are they. $50 is generally within the range of costs for keeping a cluster of happy customers.
Well, the question comes down to two things: one, is this person really going to go away because they won't give her free money, and two, is she worth more as a customer or an ex-customer? For the former, one of those laws of retail along with "be-backs won't" is the fact that nearly everyone who takes their toys and stomps off home quietly sneaks back when they think you've forgotten them, or at least forgotten them throwing a tantrum in the middle of your store. The customers you have to worry about aren't the ones throwing fits; they're the ones who just quietly leave ... and never come back. And apparently she did buy her mother a second $50 gift card, doubling what she had intended to pay, to smooth over the ruffled feelings generated by the double-click (which makes me surprisingly grateful for my mother). For the latter ... well, I was kind of snarky in another thread about someone paying exorbitant costs to produce small runs of pbooks and ending up selling them below cost. Some things cost more than they bring in. A customer who demands free gift cards is likely to be in that same category: someone who doesn't earn out the investment. From the emails and posts we've seen, she impresses me as a liability.

This whole thing is more than a bit strange. The OP is clearly not a MR lurker -- if she was, she wouldn't have thought I worked for Kobo! This means she found this forum and registered specifically to complain that Kobo wouldn't let her keep a gift card without paying for it. Since people usually go to their friends, or at least distant online acquaintances, for sympathy, I can't see that as the reason for registering and posting here. I'm thinking we were supposed to be outraged, and bombard Kobo with emails demanding that the OP be given her free gift card. Which, of course, didn't happen, but the whole scenario doesn't make sense any other way. And there's the matter of the mother: why should it have been a secret how much the gift card cost? It costs the face value. If someone sends me a $50 gift card, I can be pretty sure it cost them $50. And why would both her parents be upset (to the point of her father calling her) because the card was accidentally sent twice (the double button press) and the erroneous one was canceled? And then the mother apparently demanded both the real birthday gift and the accidental one, not being satisfied with what her daughter originally tried to give her. Seriously, do you know anyone who would do that? Then there's the whole response to my "word after greedy" thing. I dunno, Elf. Something here makes me itch.

By the way, Unicorn, we're hostile because of your situation, your posts, and your attitude. The people on MR are a very friendly and accepting bunch -- they put up with me, for the love of Mike! You managed to get on their collective bad side. This is not an easy thing to do.
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Old 04-13-2011, 02:12 AM   #47
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When I'm paying bills and ordering things online, sites regularly have windows advising you not to click more than once AND not to refresh the the browser for this very reason.

It's not like there are two orders with the same transaction number that would flag it as being a duplicate. I bet high volume sites process several orders between the double clicks.
Two exact same orders from the same IP address using the same credit card in less than a second. I would think some software engineer could prevent that from happening. Oh well, I must be giving engineers too much credit.
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Old 04-13-2011, 02:53 AM   #48
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d) I never received an apology for any of this, nor an explanation of why
I'd say you did. Sort of. You got a free book.
You also got an explanation of a probable reason why the double purchase happened. (Double clicking or refreshing or going back a page).
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Old 04-13-2011, 03:27 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Fbone View Post
Two exact same orders from the same IP address using the same credit card in less than a second. I would think some software engineer could prevent that from happening. Oh well, I must be giving engineers too much credit.
Even newegg double-ordered on me a few months ago. It happens still. Of course, it was the result of that stupid "verified by Mastercard" B.S. and me refusing to sign up for it every time...but the Verified By page glitched with a ! script error (unusual...some sort of timeout)...then a refresh ended up with two orders.

Didn't notice until the next day and had to RMA. And then had to contact newegg to trim off the 15% restock fee.
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Old 04-13-2011, 04:17 AM   #50
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The whole point of the OP was that she didn't get what she wanted when she complained. Ok, that sucks, I hate when that happens. I think shes perfectly justified to feel like that, but when she came to a forum to complain about the service she received rather that contacting Koba it seems like a waste of your time.

We have all had customer service experiences that we weren't happy about, some of us have even felt the need to complain incessantly about it to anyone that will listen, but thats not going to solve the core issue.

You came asking advice, accept that the advice given isn't what advice you wanted and get over it. The people that frequent this forum have given an opinion, nothing more.
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Old 04-13-2011, 10:34 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Fbone View Post
Two exact same orders from the same IP address using the same credit card in less than a second. I would think some software engineer could prevent that from happening. Oh well, I must be giving engineers too much credit.
It's not as easy as one might think, which is why it happens on so many different websites. While the two orders within a second part is fairly obviously a mistake, what happens if you have two orders within, say, 30 seconds? Is that a mistake, or is it someone in a hurry? You're trying not to delay the person in a hurry (risking their business) in order to protect the double-clicker from himself. The extremes are fine, but the border is a can of worms, as is deciding where to set that border. Also, if a site is using a canned shopping cart script instead of writing (and supporting) their own, they don't have much control over it, and a lot of vendors do just that.

Generally, it's not a big deal. Someone who accidentally double orders will ask for one of the orders to be canceled, and that solves the entire problem. Having people do that might not be the optimal solution, but it's the easiest. The difference in this case is a buyer who wasn't content for one order to be canceled, as most are, but wanted to get both orders and only pay for one. And, when Kobo wouldn't do that, she came here and seemingly wanted to use MobileRead as her personal army to make Kobo give her that second order for free (and don't get me started on her mother who wanted two gift cards).

Could the shopping cart have been better written? Yeah, it could have. I've written better myself. But it's one of those things where if you're not writing a cart from scratch (and there is rarely a reason to; we had to because of a client's unusual business model) it's probably reasonable to assume that the user will only click once, and human intervention -- that is, canceling and refunding the rare spurious order -- will take care of the exceptions. Most people are reasonable.
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Old 04-13-2011, 10:59 AM   #52
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Most people are reasonable.
Karma for wishful thinking
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Old 04-13-2011, 11:25 AM   #53
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What she said.
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Old 04-13-2011, 12:06 PM   #54
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Even newegg double-ordered on me a few months ago. It happens still.

Didn't notice until the next day and had to RMA. And then had to contact newegg to trim off the 15% restock fee.
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Originally Posted by Worldwalker View Post

Generally, it's not a big deal. Someone who accidentally double orders will ask for one of the orders to be canceled, and that solves the entire problem. Having people do that might not be the optimal solution, but it's the easiest.
What if you don't notice the mistake immediately as GreenMonkey didn't? Or in the OP's case where the item was delivered before the confirmation email?

If she purchased a book for her mother, she would have to return it. At whose expense?

Anyway, I just thought these types of errors were eliminated with modern software systems.
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Old 04-13-2011, 12:37 PM   #55
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You call your mother.

You tell her that there was a screw-up with the gift card and not to use it until everything is straightened out. If you're embarassed, so be it. These things happen in life.

You realize that one transaction has to be cancelled if you don't want to be charged twice without getting a credit back for one.

It's not rocket science.

The title of this thread is misleading.

And no, I don't work for Kobo.

The fault is not with this forum being "judgemental". The fault is that you are looking at the situation subjectively rather than objectively. We are not supporting your POV and you are getting upset over that. Why did you start the thread - weren't you expecting people to "judge" Kobo's behavior? Your error was that you thought random strangers would agree with you.

Last edited by Xanthe; 04-13-2011 at 12:44 PM.
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Old 04-13-2011, 12:41 PM   #56
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Anyway, I just thought these types of errors were eliminated with modern software systems.
There are so many variables and possible points of failure between you clicking the "order" button and your order being processed and card charged that it is practically impossible to predict and prevent all of them. The "double-click" error is easy and common enough though and should not be happening. On the other hand, "out-of-the-box" shopping carts are often sub-standard sold to companies who do not know what to look for and once sold, the companies are often stuck with the sub-standard over priced solution because it would be too expensive for them to change.
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Old 04-13-2011, 01:23 PM   #57
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I've gotta read profiles more.
No problem, it happens a lot on here. In honor of this occurance and the other current thread about avoiding romance novels, I've changed my user title to make things easier for everyone.
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Old 04-13-2011, 01:37 PM   #58
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No problem, it happens a lot on here. In honor of this occurance and the other current thread about avoiding romance novels, I've changed my user title to make things easier for everyone.
What about the guy who enjoy romance novels like Logseman and Ron? Are they to feature a "frustrated female" now, too?? Man, I love this place!
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Old 04-13-2011, 01:59 PM   #59
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What about the guy who enjoy romance novels like Logseman and Ron? Are they to feature a "frustrated female" now, too?? Man, I love this place!
Woooooooaaaaat ??????? Now you're getting interesting.... Logseman enjoys romance novels !!!???!!! The kinky ones or just the plain ones ? Details expected Poppaea, you know my PM address
Logseman, you are sooooooooo cooked !
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Old 04-13-2011, 02:16 PM   #60
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In this case, Kobo owes her the free card--she authorized purchase of *one* card. If Kobo wanted to cancel the extra, they should've sent out an email saying "we accidentally sent you a second gift card, which won't work" rather than leaving it up to the person they charged to explain Kobo's glitch.
It did:

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No, you must not have ever purchased a gift card for giving. When you purchase one it sends the recipient an email and a picture of the gift card showing the amount. In my case she was sent 2 separate emails showing she had 2 gift cards for $50. It would also show she had a $100 credit in her account. Then when they took one back it sent her another email saying her gift had been CANCELLED. I'm not going to argue with you people. I have one word for the day and it's ACCOUNTABILTY.
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