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Old 09-05-2007, 12:53 PM   #76
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Digital Editions absolutely supports DRM for both purchase and lending.

From Adobe's website:
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Adobe® ADEPT (Adobe Digital Editions Protection Technology) is a convenient hosted service solution for protecting premium digital content against unauthorized use, via Digital Rights Management (DRM) technology. ADEPT is fully compatible with Adobe Content Server DRM technology, and supports both purchase and lending transactions. Adobe Content Server protected publications are being distributed by hundreds of content retailers and institutions as well as thousands of public libraries around the world.

ADEPT DRM technology is seamlessly integrated with Adobe Digital Editions, Adobe's new Rich Internet Application expressly designed for reading and managing digital publications.
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Old 09-05-2007, 04:02 PM   #77
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Right now only there's DRM support only for PDFs in Digital Editions.
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Old 09-07-2007, 01:59 AM   #78
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Thank you, rlauzon, for trying to talk some sense into these people.

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Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
We don't purchase the books with DRM, the publishers think ebooks aren't working. The hardware makers see ebooks are not selling, they stop making the hardware. The ebook publishers stop publishing and we the consumer lose out.
HarryT and JSWolf, you two should be deeply ashamed of yourselves. In all of the hype over ebook hardware, you two are advocating sacrificing all of the rights of owning a physical book to ensure the current commercial success of your stupid eInk gizmos and gadgets. I would rather the current and next several generations of eInk readers simply die if this kind of ebook DRM went back to hell with it. DRM is a marketing scheme, it's about security in money and money in security, and the only reason DRM ebook readers and DRM ebook stores exist today is because that's the way they've found to strangle the most money out of this market. It's a cyclical loop of vendor lock-in's and attempted market domination, instead of providing a viable mechanism for the dissemination of knowledge.

I'm not saying I know a better way, all I'm saying is that this way is *wrong*, even if it's the only way. It's important people recognize this.

Giving into this kind of marketing scheme is a slap in the face to the hundreds of years that humanity has perfected the press as a medium for the exchange of ideas and culture. If I can't lend a digital book to my friend, just shoot me, because I would be disgusted to learn that some idiots from MobileRead (under the mask of saints because of course they are "supporting the authors") decided to poison society into believing that we must all buy DRM; because to them, the present-day commercial success of their fancy schmancy eInk devices was more important than even giving a moment's thought to all of the future rights they were trashing in the process.

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I hope you won't mind if I shake my head sadly in your general direction, Lauzon .
rlauzon, I apologize on behalf of HarryT, because he's too obsessed with prolonging God's holy cloak of protection, DRM, to even respect alternate views on this matter that he is far too ignorant to understand.

Apparently for some, corporate legality reigns over morality, culture, and the free spread of information.
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Old 09-07-2007, 02:51 AM   #79
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rlauzon, I apologize on behalf of HarryT, because he's too obsessed with prolonging God's holy cloak of protection, DRM, to even respect alternate views on this matter that he is far too ignorant to understand.
Unless you really want to end up with the lowest "karma" in the history of MobileRead, do not EVER "apologise" for me, or make personal comments on my "ignorance", when you have absolutely no idea about my level of knowledge.

I have been reading eBooks for well over 20 years and am very, very, well acquainted with all the arguments in favour or, and against, DRM. I personally believe that DRM is essential for the commercial success of eBooks. You are of course very welcome to hold a contrary opinion - that's your right.

MobileRead is a "civilised" board and not the type of place where it is acceptable to make impolite remarks about other posters. You are welcome to disagree with peoples' opinions, but you will not insult people or you will be banned from this board.

Disagree with peoples' opinions if you wish - that's fine - but be polite and do not make personal comments about other board members.
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Old 09-07-2007, 03:11 AM   #80
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So HarryT, with your apparently quantifiable "level of knowledge", enlighten me: What were ebook readers like in 1987? Did they run OS/2?

Or how about responding to any of the points I actually posted?
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Old 09-07-2007, 03:58 AM   #81
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Good grief no - you certainly couldn't get any hand-held device running OS/2 in those days. First device I read books on was an early British PDA called the "Psion Organiser II" which appeared in the mid 80s and had a big following in the UK - do a Google search for details if you're interested.

I'm not certain what points you'd like me to comment on - they appear to be hidden in a vitriolic diatribe about "MobileRead idiots poisoning society". If you would like to restate them in a factual manner, I'll be happy to respond.
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Old 09-07-2007, 06:00 AM   #82
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Harry, I disagree that DRM is required for commercial success in the eBook market. Given that the print publisher with the greatest commercial success in that market is Baen, which has a policy of actively fighting DRM, the linkage seems spurious.

What's needed to ensure commercial success in the market is a certain volume of sales. Baen gets that volume because they don't use DRM. Therefore I would say that not only is DRM not essential, but also that it's a detriment to the market as a whole.
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Old 09-07-2007, 06:10 AM   #83
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Harry, I disagree that DRM is required for commercial success in the eBook market. Given that the print publisher with the greatest commercial success in that market is Baen, which has a policy of actively fighting DRM, the linkage seems spurious.

What's needed to ensure commercial success in the market is a certain volume of sales. Baen gets that volume because they don't use DRM. Therefore I would say that not only is DRM not essential, but also that it's a detriment to the market as a whole.
Trouble is, we can't make a balanced judgement because, for obvious reasons, most publishers regard such information as commercially confidential.

Yes, Baen are a success, but they are a specialist publishers and not necessarily representative of the publishing market as a whole. They sell a few hundred different books - compare that to MobiPocket's 30,000+ DRM-protected books. How commercially successful are those books? unfortunately, we have no way of knowing.

What seems clear is that many publishers will not publish e-Books without DRM, because rightly or wrong they believe that doing so will open the flood-gates to their books being illegally copied. Whether that is a valid concern I don't know, but judging from the number of people on this site who openly admit to illegally downloading eBooks it seems to have some basis in reality.

As I've said before, personally I'm not bothered about DRM, because most of the books I read I never re-read. If I spend $5 on a DRM-protected book from Fictionwise (or whoever) I read it and I probably won't want to read it again. I'm really not concerned about whether or not I'll be able to re-read it in 10 years time. For me, that $5 is a "one time" entertainment cost, like going to see a movie or having a meal somewhere.

I buy a large range of different books from different sites; most without, but a few with, DRM.
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Old 09-07-2007, 06:26 AM   #84
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Honestly, are there any new points that anyone would like to bring to the table? At this point, we know everyone's stance, and the pro's and con's for and against. One side isn't going to change the other side's point of view,

Can we agree to disagree, and let this thread ?

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Old 09-07-2007, 06:53 AM   #85
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New people come to the board, so inevitably it starts up again. I'm happy to restate my views to anyone who's willing to discuss it politely, and to listen to anyone else's arguments.
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Old 09-07-2007, 07:22 AM   #86
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Honestly, are there any new points that anyone would like to bring to the table? At this point, we know everyone's stance, and the pro's and con's for and against. One side isn't going to change the other side's point of view,

Can we agree to disagree, and let this thread ?

It will never happen. I've been reading these exact same threads with these exact same arguments for over a decade now. I could probably drag some old threads out of usenet archives and post them unedited and no one would notice.

The venue changes. The participants change. But the same old arguments just keep going round and round and round.

And still, the e-book market is where it is.
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Old 09-07-2007, 07:32 AM   #87
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... and still many of us have been happily reading eBooks through that entire time .
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Old 09-07-2007, 09:07 AM   #88
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Good grief no - you certainly couldn't get any hand-held device running OS/2 in those days. First device I read books on was an early British PDA called the "Psion Organiser II" which appeared in the mid 80s and had a big following in the UK - do a Google search for details if you're interested.
Harry, you've been reading ebooks almost as long as I've been alive.

I'd call that pretty knowledgeable.
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Old 09-07-2007, 09:25 AM   #89
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Null, when I purchase ebooks with DRM, I remove the DRM for my use only and then I convert to LRF so my Sony Reader can read said book(s). That way, I can convert these ebooks to whatever format a future reading device will support. I'm not advocating anything. And for most people DRM is not really an issue. A lot of people do not reread books all that much so once it's read, that's it.
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Old 09-07-2007, 09:32 AM   #90
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Harry, you've been reading ebooks almost as long as I've been alive.
That's me - Harry "Methuselah" T.
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