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Old 09-28-2011, 06:00 PM   #1
David Marseilles
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will kindlenistas be as rabid as ifanatics?

I just spent a few minutes in the Amazon kindle forum (at amazon, not here), and saw some very familiar attacks in high volume. Someone bemoans the lack of expandability or buttons, instant rabid defensiveness from everyone else. Heaven forbid you suggest that one size does not fit all. People who had no opinion about SD slots yesterday are now absolutely certain that no one could ever need one. People who kind of liked buttons yesterday now know that no one could ever need more than a touchscreen. Disagree? You're not different, you're just wrong. Also you should shut up, because heaven forbid you voice your opinion in hopes influencing the second generation of devices.

I remember the old days of the palm vs. winmo fanboy wars. Those fanboys, though certainly annoying, were nothing like today's fanboys. Once technology goes mainstream, people seem to attach to it the same way they attach to a celebrity. Theirs is best because theirs is best. Not because it meets a particular need better. Indeed, no reason at all is necessary. People are warring over brands instead of functionality, and for whatever reason, I find that far more annoying.

Despite claims to the contrary, I haven't seen this strain of fan in any substantial numbers for android thus far, but I fear that is about to change. When tech goes mainstream, prices go down and the pace of advancement can quicken. I suppose that's worth the drama...
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Old 09-28-2011, 06:14 PM   #2
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It doesn't have to be main stream, Mac fanboys have always been the worst even when their product was almost non existent.

One thing I've observed is Amazon's marketing is almost a complete clone of Apples. They have the same commercials, similar products, similar terminology. The press conference is also huge events that seem to stir up a lot of media hype (yes I'm sure both pay for coverage). Look at the press release it's even a clone of Apples where they have "Senior" whatever talking about their new technology.

The only thing Amazon needs to do is lose a kindle in a bar prior to a product release.... okay maybe they'll lose it in a library.

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Old 09-28-2011, 07:21 PM   #3
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Your point about their marketing, and implicitly, their target markets, certainly makes sense.
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Old 09-29-2011, 12:45 PM   #4
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Dude, now I know why I've never cared for Kindle's marketing efforts. They just don't speak to me. Although I should probably be their demographic. It is really similar to Apples'....

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Old 09-30-2011, 01:08 AM   #5
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Seems =X='s opinion is shared by some folks who know and love apple pretty fervantly: http://gizmodo.com/5844863/jeff-bezo...new-steve-jobs
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Old 10-02-2011, 02:22 AM   #6
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It's little different than being a fan of a professional sports team, which is to say irrational but kinda fun. Funny how the Fire is getting attacked from both sides. Apple fans attack Amazon for threatening Apple's dominance (whether it's true or not), and Android zealots view Amazon as some sort of Android Judas.
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Old 10-02-2011, 02:26 PM   #7
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It's little different than being a fan of a professional sports team, which is to say irrational but kinda fun.
I'm not annoyed by fans, regular folks sitting in the stands waving a giant finger. It's the nuts that paint themselves team colors and attack without provocation. Fan might be short for Fanatic, but the connotation is very different.

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Funny how the Fire is getting attacked from both sides. Apple fans attack Amazon for threatening Apple's dominance (whether it's true or not), and Android zealots view Amazon as some sort of Android Judas.
I'm not sure if you think this thread is anti-Amazon or not, but I certainly don't view it that way. I've been looking forward to Amazon's entry for some time, and I'm still interested in next year's hollywood tab and another that doesn't have a codename yet.

To some extent, the fire was a rush job and possibly more outsourced than usual. Amazon needed something out for the holidays. I'll be interested to see how they deal with upgrades like ICS, with sideloading and bootloaders as well as what they do with hardware when they have more time and more involvement.
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Old 10-03-2011, 01:00 AM   #8
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I'm not sure if you think this thread is anti-Amazon or not, but I certainly don't view it that way. I've been looking forward to Amazon's entry for some time, and I'm still interested in next year's hollywood tab and another that doesn't have a codename yet.

To some extent, the fire was a rush job and possibly more outsourced than usual. Amazon needed something out for the holidays. I'll be interested to see how they deal with upgrades like ICS, with sideloading and bootloaders as well as what they do with hardware when they have more time and more involvement.
I didn't see your observation as anti-Amazon at all. I've seen the Kindle forums and you are absolutely right. Amazon looks to be getting a fan base. It's almost like people are excited to have a new team to root for.

Not that it's a bad device, but it does appear to be a rush job. Frankly it looks like they hit it out of the ballpark with the software, but the hardware was a little disappointing. Not the specs themselves, per se (considering the price), but I expected something more distinctive in design coming from Amazon, and it looks like they threw together whatever was available.

I don't think it will matter. The price/performance/ecosystem combo may still be enough to accomplish their goal. Already people are calling it a two company market, which I think is an exaggeration. I'm much more skeptical about their alleged 10" offering, which will essentially mark all out war against Apple.

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Old 10-03-2011, 03:56 AM   #9
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The only thing Amazon needs to do is lose a kindle in a bar prior to a product release.... okay maybe they'll lose it in a library.
It'd be better if they lost it in a Barnes and Noble store, in the restroom closest to the Nook display section.
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Old 10-03-2011, 05:41 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by David Marseilles View Post
I just spent a few minutes in the Amazon kindle forum (at amazon, not here), and saw some very familiar attacks in high volume. Someone bemoans the lack of expandability or buttons, instant rabid defensiveness from everyone else. Heaven forbid you suggest that one size does not fit all. People who had no opinion about SD slots yesterday are now absolutely certain that no one could ever need one.
With respect, David, I think you've misrepresented the issue. Most of the "attacks" are coming from people who are criticising the Kindle but have no experience of using one.

Consider the issue you mention: the lack of an SD slot. I currently have 636 books on my Kindle, which is realistically more than I'll probably read in the rest of my lifetime. I'm using about a third of my Kindle's storage space. Some of the people who say "The Kindle is useless because it doesn't have an SD card slot" are perhaps not stopping to consider that actually there are a great many people out there who don't consider that "only" bring able to carry 2000 books around with them is a problem .
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Old 10-03-2011, 06:08 AM   #11
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Consider the issue you mention: the lack of an SD slot. I currently have 636 books on my Kindle, which is realistically more than I'll probably read in the rest of my lifetime. I'm using about a third of my Kindle's storage space. Some of the people who say "The Kindle is useless because it doesn't have an SD card slot" are perhaps not stopping to consider that actually there are a great many people out there who don't consider that "only" bring able to carry 2000 books around with them is a problem .
I think that is much less valid for the Fire though. That is designed to be a general content consumption device, not just eBooks. Won't take many apps, comics, videos, etc... to eat through the 8Gb of storage.
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Old 10-03-2011, 06:13 AM   #12
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I think that is much less valid for the Fire though. That is designed to be a general content consumption device, not just eBooks. Won't take many apps, comics, videos, etc... to eat through the 8Gb of storage.
Definitely. I totally agree with you there. It was the eInk Kindles that I was specifically referring to. The lack of any form of external card storage on the Fire is an issue.
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Old 10-03-2011, 06:44 AM   #13
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I'm an apple fanboy & an amazon fanboy. I want to buy a fire but already have 3 iPads. SD card slot, bah. Easily understood why they didn't include. It's not because of cost. The fire is a gateway to all of their cloud services. 8GB is just enough to get away with. Majority of users aren't gonna know what to do with an SD card slot, amazon knows this, they have to know it. The geeks like us who would want the slot are few & far between, a small % that it's not even a thought to include. Just trying to look at it from a rational, business point if view. Kindle fire will be a content consumption device, amazons content, via the cloud of course.
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Old 10-03-2011, 08:17 AM   #14
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They couldn't sell me the Kindle Fire for 20 bucks with only 8 GB and no expansion options. 8 GB is fine for a dedicated reader, but for a tablet? One movie and some music and you are maxed out. The cloud would only work if they included unlimited 3G -- which obviously isn't feasible.

Would another $50 really matter? If expansion slots don't matter, why does every phone have one?

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Old 10-03-2011, 08:38 AM   #15
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They couldn't sell me the Kindle Fire for 20 bucks with only 8 GB and no expansion options. 8 GB is fine for a dedicated reader, but for a tablet? One movie and some music and you are maxed out. The cloud would only work if they included unlimited 3G -- which obviously isn't feasible.
For a device that you take out-and-about with you? Yes, I agree. I wouldn't swap my iPad for a Fire, no matter how little it cost. But Amazon are clearly aiming this as a cloud player for use in the home, with WiFi. That's the only use-case that makes sense with it.

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Would another $50 really matter? If expansion slots don't matter, why does every phone have one?
I don't think it's a matter of cost; it's a matter of Amazon not wanting people to load their own video content. The device is being sold at a break-even price point - perhaps even at a loss - because the expectation is that the user will buy content from Amazon.
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