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Old 04-14-2015, 10:44 AM   #1
JimmXinu
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Question FanFiction Plugin Subforum?

Hi,

I've had a few people in the last couple months suggest that maybe the FanFictionDownLoader thread gets enough traffic to justify it's own sub-forum to separate topics of conversation.

Since I plan to create a new thread this week for FanFicFare (the renamed replacement plugin for FanFictionDownLoader), it seems that now may be a good time to ask.

What's the policy? Is that something could be done? (If yes, I assume it would be under the new name: '[GUI Plugin] FanFicFare'.)

Thanks.
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Old 04-14-2015, 11:34 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmXinu View Post
Hi,

I've had a few people in the last couple months suggest that maybe the FanFictionDownLoader thread gets enough traffic to justify it's own sub-forum to separate topics of conversation.

Since I plan to create a new thread this week for FanFicFare (the renamed replacement plugin for FanFictionDownLoader), it seems that now may be a good time to ask.

What's the policy? Is that something could be done? (If yes, I assume it would be under the new name: '[GUI Plugin] FanFicFare'.)

Thanks.
Kovid is the owner of the main forum (Alex own MR), So Kovid has to first approve the division.

Then the request goes to Alex and The Mobileread crew

<Mod hat completely OFF>
That said: I think 2 forums for Plugins would be more confusing to new users and a lot of Mod work keeping it (re)orderly

Maybe FanFic is a good General Forum with the FFDL (Calibre) PI as a topic
BTW FFDL seems to me to be more like Get News. with support per site

<Mod Hat back on>
Major New versions of a PI deserve a new thread in Plugins to support differences. As you have pointed out, settings are not backwards compatible. In my book, that makes it a Major New Version.
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Old 04-14-2015, 12:17 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theducks View Post
That said: I think 2 forums for Plugins would be more confusing to new users and a lot of Mod work keeping it (re)orderly
Wouldn't a new FanFicFare subforum be a child of the Plugins forum? There would still be only one Plugin forum, and naming the new forum "[GUI Plugin] FanFicFare" would respect the forum's naming convention. There wouldn't be a division of the main Plugins forum.

N.
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Old 04-14-2015, 12:24 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aleyx View Post
Wouldn't a new FanFicFare subforum be a child of the Plugins forum? There would still be only one Plugin forum, and naming the new forum "[GUI Plugin] FanFicFare" would respect the forum's naming convention. There wouldn't be a division of the main Plugins forum.
That's what I meant:

MobileRead Forums
E-Book Software
Calibre
Plugins
[GUI Plugin] FanFicFare
Release Thread
Problem Threads
Metadata Replacement Threads
etc

Last edited by JimmXinu; 04-21-2015 at 12:04 PM. Reason: Correct indented leveling
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Old 04-14-2015, 02:50 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmXinu View Post
Hi,

I've had a few people in the last couple months suggest that maybe the FanFictionDownLoader thread gets enough traffic to justify it's own sub-forum to separate topics of conversation.

Since I plan to create a new thread this week for FanFicFare (the renamed replacement plugin for FanFictionDownLoader), it seems that now may be a good time to ask.

What's the policy? Is that something could be done? (If yes, I assume it would be under the new name: '[GUI Plugin] FanFicFare'.)

Thanks.
IMO the answer depends on whether the fanfic plugin represents an ecosystem with sufficient user demand and complexity to demand dedicated support and discussion. If it has thousands of users (seemingly true), a community willing to provide support (I have no idea), and a significant number of discussions that are only peripherally related to calibre (I have no idea), then it has crossed that boundary.

I think that the fact that it is a calibre plugin is a red herring. One could say the same thing about the Alf plugins, but even if it were allowed in MobileRead it wouldn't make much sense to limit support of them to one thread. Hoping not to complicate things for myself, my Calibre Companion forum is similar. It depends on calibre as does the fanfic plugin, but most of the questions are not directly calibre-related, and it has a very helpful user community. On the other hand, perhaps the fanfic "adapter" (to avoid the word "plugin") doesn't have lots of non-calibre-related discussion (as said above, I have no idea).

In the end the answer should depend on whether people are getting what they need without incurring significant management complexity (moderation). Users who get questions answered are happy users. Users who can easily find existing answers to questions are happy users. Happy users turn into supporters, both for calibre and for MobileRead. Does the current single thread (or two threads) satisfy these two requirements?
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Old 04-14-2015, 07:01 PM   #6
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I hadn't really considered a sub-forum at the 'E-Book Software' level, but now that chaley's mentioned it, it's not a bad idea, at least from my POV.

Because FanFicFare, as a whole, is going to need more than just the single plugin thread--the old version already has more.

The older version, FanFictionDownLoader has the plugin, a Python CLI and a web service version. The plugin is the newest--and most popular--of the three interfaces.

There's currently a Google Group for the project: CLI and web service users are generally directed there, and plugin users to the forum thread here, though some plugin users do post to the Google Group. (I was just considering whether to rename the Google Group or find something else for the CLI/web service users. I basically use the Google Group as a mail list, not as a repository of past discussions and answers.)

If I had one place for both sets of users, that would be a distinct benefit to me. And I pretty much have to have a thread here for plugin because that's how plugins are distributed.

For the other suggested criteria, I estimate that FanFictionDownLoader has on the close order of 1000 users. I doubt that there are multiple thousands. Presumably they will eventually all switch over to FanFicFare.

I can't promise a community of active users, but there are some other developers and users who help answer common questions when they come up.

I also know users comment on finding it difficult to locate previous answers in the existing plugin thread. Presumably that would be better with more structure, but that seems common to all support forums/lists in my experience. (Then again, we don't see posts from the people who find their answers...)

I'm personally in a poor position to judge community benefit vs "significant management complexity (moderation)" because I don't know how much moderation work would be involved.
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Old 04-14-2015, 10:49 PM   #7
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I'm not sure if MR supports sub-sub forums, and since JimmXinu says that FFF has non calibre user interfaces as well, probably makes most sense to put it in E-book software. However, some MR level moderator needs to comment on that.

Another consideration is that the calibre plugin system requires a thread corresponding to every plugin that contains the zip file in the first post and is linked to from the index of plugins sticky. That will still work with a separate forum, you would just need to create a special thread in it witht he zip file.
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Old 04-16-2015, 04:49 AM   #8
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@JimmXinu: I suggest you send a PM to Alexander Turcic, referring to this thread and asking his opinion. My guess is that not much will happen until then.
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Old 04-16-2015, 10:52 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaley View Post
@JimmXinu: I suggest you send a PM to Alexander Turcic, referring to this thread and asking his opinion. My guess is that not much will happen until then.
Thanks for the suggestion.

But before that I want to post something to the existing thread(s) and see what the response is. The lack of comment on this thread is suggesting to me that it may not a big enough community.
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Old 04-16-2015, 01:09 PM   #10
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I think a separate sub-forum would be welcomed.
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Old 04-16-2015, 01:28 PM   #11
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I also like the suggestion, seeing how much traffic FFDL and FFF get. It having its own sub-forum would also enable to split the discussion into more detailed areas.
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Old 04-16-2015, 03:41 PM   #12
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What do the google group frequenters think about you migrating to MobileRead?
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Old 04-17-2015, 10:24 AM   #13
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I've long been of the opinion that FFDL/FFF should be a sub-forum, either on it's own or under Calibre. With 3000+ posts in the original thread trying to find answers to questions I'm sure have already been asked is a bit of a nightmare. And the new thread already has 41 posts, most of which have little to do with the functionality of the plugin itself and are the mods discussing background forum maintenance - things of little interest to the average user .
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Old 04-17-2015, 10:26 AM   #14
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Indeed -- I ended up moving over to PM for that reason.
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Old 04-17-2015, 11:14 AM   #15
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FYI, I've dropped a note on the Google Group list to ask people there what they'd think of moving here.

At this point, I plan to approach Alexander Turcic as chaley suggested about a sub-forum, the question is whether I should ask about something in 'E-Book Software' for all FanFicFare users or for a sub-sub-forum in Calibre > Plugins for plugin users as I'd originally planned.

Thanks everybody for your help and input with this so far.
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