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Old 02-26-2011, 02:37 AM   #61
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In all honesty, good. Libraries need to stop spending so much money on dvds and cds and video games and computers and spend more on real books.

As far as I am concerned, libraries have no business lending these things, much less buying the amounts they do (my mother used to work for the library, they'd literally buy 100s of the top movies)

People wonder why Blockbuster went under. Sure, some of it was movies not costing $100 any more to buy, and competition from Netflix and Red Box. But libraries are a big factor too - why pay anything when you can get the movie for free?

So spending more money on books, not because they're buying more books, but because the same books cost more, is a good thing in your book?

Anything that reduces spending on things you disapprove of is a good thing, I guess, even at the cost of basic literacy.

Does the phrase, 'throwing out the baby with the bathwater' mean anything to you?

How about 'cutting off your nose to spite your face'?

Libraries are depositories of *culture*, not just literacy. Music, film and art should also be readily available to the public at large. It benefits everyone - but then the idea that what's good for corporations is the be-all and end-all has been around for awhile.
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Old 02-26-2011, 03:54 AM   #62
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This must be a joke. Surely Harper Collins can't be serious? Unfortunately, I know they are deadly serious. No way I want my personal info given to Harper Collins, esp as I would be a prime example of what they are trying to stop!

When will they realise that the world has changed and their traditional model is broken. The dark side gets brighter and brighter the more inane rules they insist on.
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Old 02-26-2011, 04:28 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by JeremyR View Post
Libraries need to stop spending so much money on dvds and cds and video games and computers and spend more on real books.
That is very narrow point of view. Libraries spend money on the media that patrons want to borrow. Whether that's trashy novels, DVDs or video games (or in-branch internet access) is really not that different.

Quote:
People wonder why Blockbuster went under.
Because of competition from the public libraries? Please, be serious. Bookstores are failing for the same reason, do you think?

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... competition from Netflix and Red Box.
Now you're talking.
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Old 02-26-2011, 06:20 AM   #64
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How much does a library pay for an ebook?

In Sweden libraries did sign a contract that makes them pay $3 to the publisher for each lending of an ebook. This has become very expensive for some libraries so they are kind of demanding a change of the model.
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Old 02-26-2011, 06:51 AM   #65
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How do Kindle users feel about this turn of events?
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Old 02-26-2011, 09:19 AM   #66
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How do Kindle users feel about this turn of events?
What do Kindle users have to do with any of this as a separate group?
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Old 02-26-2011, 09:20 AM   #67
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We also have to blame the authors too. Once this crap is put in place, authors can do something about it when it comes time to resign a new contract. But they don't. They just sign and let the crap continue.
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Old 02-26-2011, 09:36 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Serena View Post
I say go for it. The more restrictions publishers put on ebooks, the easier it will be to find them free elsewhere. Same thing that happened with music.

I don't support downloading ebooks for free, but I downloaded the free music because when I bought it, I couldn't play it on all my devices.

If you won't let me check it out from the library, and continue with this price fixing that makes 10 year old books cost $8, I'm going to feel a lot less guilt downloading books as well.
Yes indeed. While the industry,(ie big 3 Manhattan pubs) goof around with deciding on how to confront the inevitable future. Piracy will continue to flourish.
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Old 02-26-2011, 12:48 PM   #69
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I am still considering what to do as far as this latest HC development. As far as HC wanting your personal information, all that is happening is that OverDrive wants to see "who" geographically we are lending online items to. My library lends to anyone in the state, since we used state grant money to build up our collection 2 years ago.

There are still other major publishers who do not sell eBooks to libraries. If we boycotted them + HC, my library could not offer many of the books/ebooks that people want. I think our best bet is to bombard HC with requests to raise the 26 limit to a more reasonable number, like 50. Honestly, most library books look pretty bad after 50 circs. Truth is, many people don't take care of the books they borrow.

My library system buys 16 copies of movies that gross $100 million and above. each branch gets 4 copies. Usually, these movies have a waiting list of 30+ people, and at least 2 copies never come back after the the first two weeks of check-outs (DVD's circ for 3 days). Those figures do not put us in competition with Netflix, Blockbuster, Hollywood, etc. Personally, I use Netflix even though I used to live behind a Hollywood video.

Online books account for about 8% of my library systems total checkouts. It's like having a small, unstaffed branch library. We pay OverDrive a huge fee every year for the webpage, technology, etc., and then pay a "normal" library rate for audiobooks (Random House/Recorded Books/BBC Audiobooks cost about $95 apiece. This is because with physical copies, we can order replacement discs for those that get lost or messed up. So, these audiobooks have a "lifetime" warranty (sp?)). Prices on eBooks vary from around $25 for a new eBook to $7 or $8 for an older eBook. Romance novels cost $2.50 to $5.00 and circulate like crazy!

HC's limits will hurt us, for sure. The geographical limits, whatever they are,, will hurt those who borrow from the library around the state. But, golly, I don't know how to tell who in our system only borrows online! Is that cardholder from downstate someone who checks out books when they visit or do they only check out eBooks? I sure can't tell.....I think most libraries will agree that there is no way to tell who in our systems just borrow ebooks; that is, unless they were coded when they first were entered into the system.
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Old 02-26-2011, 04:52 PM   #70
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What do Kindle users have to do with any of this as a separate group?
The Kindle has been disparaged frequently because it does not allow borrowing from libraries. Some bloggers are noting that if you take borrowing off the table, it is a huge boost for the Kindle.

I just bought a Literati, mainly to try borrowing library books. I have vision problems and find that the backlit screen doesn't work well for me at all. I had been considering a new e-ink reader that would be capable of borrowing, but think that I will wait to see how this shakes out.
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Old 02-26-2011, 08:14 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by grouch2 View Post
Online books account for about 8% of my library systems total checkouts. It's like having a small, unstaffed branch library. We pay OverDrive a huge fee every year for the webpage, technology, etc., and then pay a "normal" library rate for audiobooks (Random House/Recorded Books/BBC Audiobooks cost about $95 apiece. This is because with physical copies, we can order replacement discs for those that get lost or messed up. So, these audiobooks have a "lifetime" warranty (sp?)). Prices on eBooks vary from around $25 for a new eBook to $7 or $8 for an older eBook. Romance novels cost $2.50 to $5.00 and circulate like crazy!
I was under the (apparently false) impression that the library got charged some tiny fee every time an ebook was checked out. I thought that was why my local system hasn't invested in the system yet, but maybe it's because the OverDrive cost is too expensive (and the library system is too small)?

When I lived in the Seattle area, I could get just about anything from the King County Library System, and their ebook selection was nice even back then. I wonder how this OverDrive thing is affecting them?
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Old 02-26-2011, 10:21 PM   #72
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I'm old enough to remember when the local libraries (school, neighborhood branch and the main downtown library) were touchstones of my life. They held the books I couldn't get elsewhere, and they were the only way I had to research anything. I learned to use the card catalog and the Reader's Guide to Periodical Literature.

I wasn't sure why they felt it part of their mission to provide free VHS tapes of popular movies. Documentaries, educational videos of all kinds, "masterpiece" stuff...I could see. But I also thought, why should they censor and be the arbiters of taste? Some of the books I read were nothing but "entertainment" so why should it be any different for videos?

The modern library is far less about books than media, and providing internet access to those who don't have computers or broadband. They can provide much more information to their patrons by providing internet access than they can by maintaining a physical library. This strikes me as a useful investment of public money.

I can see why ebooks are an uncomfortable fit. Anyone who is logging on to a library site to download an ebook, has an ereader, a computer, and an internet connection. So why is it part of the library's mission to provide free ebooks to a fairly privileged class of people? Why is public tax money spent on this?

Now, I have to say that I have a Kobo and that I've checked out a number of library books, and I love being able to do that. But I can't honestly say that I feel entitled to this service as some kind of "right." In fact, it feels to me like a temporary pleasure, like a bubble, that is too fragile to last.

We're still struggling to come up with the business models that make sense for ebooks, and that includes figuring out how libraries fit into the scheme. I don't know if this "limited check-out" idea is going to work, if it'll be modified or abandoned altogether, but it does seem kind of old-fashioned and "in-the-boxy" when what we need is a new way of thinking about the whole situation.

Last edited by J. Strnad; 02-26-2011 at 10:25 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 02-26-2011, 10:40 PM   #73
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I can see why ebooks are an uncomfortable fit. Anyone who is logging on to a library site to download an ebook, has an ereader, a computer, and an internet connection. So why is it part of the library's mission to provide free ebooks to a fairly privileged class of people? Why is public tax money spent on this?

Now, I have to say that I have a Kobo and that I've checked out a number of library books, and I love being able to do that. But I can't honestly say that I feel entitled to this service as some kind of "right." In fact, it feels to me like a temporary pleasure, like a bubble, that is too fragile to last.
Maybe some are and maybe some aren't. I'm sure there are poor people who have computers, smartphones or e-Readers that can read e-Books. People get tax refunds or other sources of incomes that do allow them to make occasional electronic purchases.

Even if only privileged people read e-Books, they're still tax payers who support libraries. Libraries are meant to serve all patrons regardless of their incomes.

I think these types of arguments lead to a slippery slope that do hurt poor people. If libraries stop buying e-Books because the people who read them can afford to buy e-Books anyway and thus, shouldn't expect the library to buy them, what's to stop people from eventually thinking "well, people have e-Readers and can buy e-Books so why do we need libraries at all?"
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Old 02-27-2011, 09:52 PM   #74
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Hold on...If I understand you right, the they might allow 400 downloads so four hundred people can have the book out at once? would that mean no more holds?
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Old 02-28-2011, 03:43 AM   #75
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I can assure you OverDrive is not interested in managing or having any say in your library policies and issues.
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