Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > News

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-16-2011, 03:29 PM   #1
karunaji
Evangelist
karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
karunaji's Avatar
 
Posts: 421
Karma: 1033566
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Latvia
Device: Kindle 3 Wifi, Bookeen Opus
The true cost of publishing on the Amazon Kindle

It appears that wireless delivery of newspapers and magazines could cost more than mailing paper versions: http://www.pcpro.co.uk/blogs/2011/02...amazon-kindle/

It makes no sense but I think that it really underlines how the closed device/app market is only beneficial to corporations at the expense of consumers and authors. Look, we all love free access to the the internet on Kindle but there is no free lunch. When real costs are very well hidden companies can charge obscene prices for wireless data. 10p per 1 MB is is robbery.

The real cost of 3G wireless data is very low. When I was in London I bought a prepaid SIM card that allowed me to use unlimited data for 27p per day. In Latvia there are similar plans with minimum of 100 MB/month for $2.

I don't know why Amazon is unable to negotiate better rates but closed device is one reason for this. If Kindle was sold with an option to use a personal SIM card, there would be real competition between cell phone networks to provide better plans and with better data access Kindle could have more functionality.
karunaji is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2011, 03:56 PM   #2
susan_cassidy
Wizard
susan_cassidy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.susan_cassidy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.susan_cassidy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.susan_cassidy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.susan_cassidy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.susan_cassidy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.susan_cassidy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.susan_cassidy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.susan_cassidy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.susan_cassidy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.susan_cassidy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,813
Karma: 1662214
Join Date: Jan 2009
Device: Kindle, iPad (not used much for reading)
Maybe it is cheap in Europe, but in the US, data plans are very expensive (to me). About the cheapest data plan is the iPad $15 US/month for 250 Mb. 2Gb will cost you $25.00 US.

For me, the problem with the data plans on most smartphones is that they want to bundle a huge talk plan with a medium data plan. I have a no-contract phone that I have to pay a minimum of $15/month, and I only use about 5 minutes a week on it. I would use more data than voice, but you can't really get a phone with that kind of plan in the US.
susan_cassidy is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Enthusiast
Old 02-16-2011, 04:31 PM   #3
karunaji
Evangelist
karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
karunaji's Avatar
 
Posts: 421
Karma: 1033566
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Latvia
Device: Kindle 3 Wifi, Bookeen Opus
Quote:
Originally Posted by susan_cassidy View Post
Maybe it is cheap in Europe, but in the US, data plans are very expensive (to me). About the cheapest data plan is the iPad $15 US/month for 250 Mb. 2Gb will cost you $25.00 US.
That's exactly the result of closed device culture. Starting from non-GSM networks and ending with iPhone monopoly. Even for GSM networks the phones are usually bought from the same operator with yearly contracts.

In Latvia the cell phone networks developed faster because the fixed line infrastructure was in bad shape. But we have problems with EU-wide roaming where the operators are strongly keeping their positions and charging insane prices for data.
karunaji is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2011, 07:53 PM   #4
Kali Yuga
Professional Contrarian
Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Kali Yuga's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,045
Karma: 3289631
Join Date: Mar 2009
Device: Kindle 4 No Touchie
Quote:
Originally Posted by karunaji View Post
I don't know why Amazon is unable to negotiate better rates but closed device is one reason for this.
I doubt it. More likely is that they just try to recoup the wireless costs whenever possible. They also pretty much screw magazine publishers.

By the way, I don't think US wireless costs have much to do with "open" vs "closed." The US is significantly larger than the EU, with many regions of lower population density, and there is a lot of competition between providers. Also things like text messaging and data lagged behind European use.


Quote:
Originally Posted by karunaji
If Kindle was sold with an option to use a personal SIM card, there would be real competition between cell phone networks to provide better plans and with better data access Kindle could have more functionality.
Uh, yeah. I'd much rather make Amazon and the magazine publishers eat the costs, than pay for it myself and save money on a service I almost never use.

Thanks for playing.
Kali Yuga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2011, 08:00 PM   #5
RobDickinson
Junior Member
RobDickinson began at the beginning.
 
Posts: 6
Karma: 10
Join Date: Jan 2011
Device: kindle
They somewhat forget that you have to print a physical paper/magazine.

And that is subsidised by the adverts, otherwise your evry cheap magazine would be quite expensive.

So should amazon insert advertising into your subscribed content to recover distribution fees?

Should amazon stump up and pay for distribution of someone elses content?

This isnt like the apple furor over 305 substription fees ermember, in this model amazon is doing the delivering as well as the payment process.
RobDickinson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2011, 08:11 PM   #6
SensualPoet
Wizard
SensualPoet ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SensualPoet ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SensualPoet ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SensualPoet ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SensualPoet ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SensualPoet ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SensualPoet ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SensualPoet ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SensualPoet ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SensualPoet ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SensualPoet ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
SensualPoet's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,295
Karma: 2607151
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Toronto
Device: Kobo Glo, Kobo Aura HD, Kindle Wifi, Nexus 7 (2013), Samsung Tab 10.1
I don't see how paying 4p as a delivery cost on a £5.99 ebook is "robbery". I'm actually chuffed that Amazon sets a value on the delivery cost of its product. Whatever I'm paying for an ebook, I'm also happy it includes "shipping".
SensualPoet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2011, 08:37 PM   #7
RobDickinson
Junior Member
RobDickinson began at the beginning.
 
Posts: 6
Karma: 10
Join Date: Jan 2011
Device: kindle
Tho with only a wifi kindle i want a discount !
RobDickinson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2011, 01:44 AM   #8
karunaji
Evangelist
karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
karunaji's Avatar
 
Posts: 421
Karma: 1033566
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Latvia
Device: Kindle 3 Wifi, Bookeen Opus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kali Yuga View Post
By the way, I don't think US wireless costs have much to do with "open" vs "closed." The US is significantly larger than the EU, with many regions of lower population density, and there is a lot of competition between providers.
These arguments have beaten to death on many forums and I don't think they are true. See, population density of Latvia is almost the same as of the US. In fact, East and West coast of the US is much more populated with sparse areas in between. But unlike Latvia you often don't have any signal in the woods anyway. I don't have any statistics but I guess that there are actually more people covered by a single cell tower in the US than in Latvia.

Quote:
Uh, yeah. I'd much rather make Amazon and the magazine publishers eat the costs, than pay for it myself and save money on a service I almost never use.
I want fair paying. If you want to avoid dealing with network operators, let Amazon to add the costs to your purchase price (10p per MB or whatever) as it is now. But for others there should be an option to insert their own SIM card without hassle and use much more data without paying Amazon. Actually there is an option in your Kindle preferences on Amazon page where you set the limit for wireless delivery charges to 0. So, I think that it would be quite easy for Amazon to implement use of personal SIM cards. It is just that they want to retain control and that's all.
karunaji is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2011, 01:51 AM   #9
karunaji
Evangelist
karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
karunaji's Avatar
 
Posts: 421
Karma: 1033566
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Latvia
Device: Kindle 3 Wifi, Bookeen Opus
Quote:
Originally Posted by SensualPoet View Post
I don't see how paying 4p as a delivery cost on a £5.99 ebook is "robbery". I'm actually chuffed that Amazon sets a value on the delivery cost of its product. Whatever I'm paying for an ebook, I'm also happy it includes "shipping".
If the actual delivery costs are 0.4p then it is robbery. Don't ignore this just because the amounts seem small and insignificant. The article reveals that it is quite significant for publishers (if you multiply by thousands and possibly millions of copies it get very real). They are keeping the file sizes artificially small by removing pictures. I personally would like to see the pictures even on the Kindle.
karunaji is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2011, 11:39 AM   #10
Anthem
Addict
Anthem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Anthem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Anthem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Anthem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Anthem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Anthem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Anthem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Anthem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Anthem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Anthem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Anthem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Anthem's Avatar
 
Posts: 313
Karma: 1119134
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: USA
Device: Kindle Paperwhite (2013), Nexus 7 (2012), Kindle
Doesn't it figure?

People who thought digital delivery mechanisms and methods would herald a future wherein content could be blasted from ethereal cannons without cost or consideration will be forcefully disabused of that idea.
Anthem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2011, 10:35 AM   #11
tompe
Grand Sorcerer
tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 7,013
Karma: 3726823
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Linköpng, Sweden
Device: Nexus 7, Nexus 5, iPad 2, Kindle PW
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kali Yuga View Post
By the way, I don't think US wireless costs have much to do with "open" vs "closed." The US is significantly larger than the EU, with many regions of lower population density, and there is a lot of competition between providers. Also things like text messaging and data lagged behind European use.
I think it is the "closed" business model that causes it. If you do not pay so much for the phone they have to charge more for making calls and for the data. Also since you are bound by the contract there is no incitament to allow new things that consumes data bandwidth.
tompe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2011, 02:43 PM   #12
Kali Yuga
Professional Contrarian
Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Kali Yuga's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,045
Karma: 3289631
Join Date: Mar 2009
Device: Kindle 4 No Touchie
Back in November, Amazon dramatically increased the royalty rate for periodicals. Before then, Amazon took 70%; after, they only take 30%.

This reduced the cost of publishing periodicals through Amazon by 40%. Did they drop their prices? AFAIK, not one red cent. Did they add more images? Doubtful.

Similarly, neither Apple nor Amazon charge less for wifi iPad subscribers than for 3G. And yes, they know who you are.

In terms of open vs closed, Amazon has a lot more clout when essentially negotiating on behalf of millions of units. I'm fairly confident they're better at negotiating with AT&T than I am.

Plus, working this way means one less bill in my inbox, one less thing that I have to pay for, one less thing to break.

So in short, I see no evidence for your assumption that you would somehow save money or get a "more fair price" by using your own 3G connection.
Kali Yuga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2011, 06:23 PM   #13
Lemurion
eReader
Lemurion ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lemurion ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lemurion ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lemurion ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lemurion ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lemurion ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lemurion ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lemurion ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lemurion ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lemurion ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lemurion ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Lemurion's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,575
Karma: 4215144
Join Date: Aug 2007
Device: iPhone 3GS; Kindle 4 (Black); Nook HD+
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
Doesn't it figure?

People who thought digital delivery mechanisms and methods would herald a future wherein content could be blasted from ethereal cannons without cost or consideration will be forcefully disabused of that idea.
The problem is that no one has yet invented an ethereal cannon.

Solve that issue and then we'll see prices drop to zero.

Lemurion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2011, 02:00 AM   #14
karunaji
Evangelist
karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.karunaji ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
karunaji's Avatar
 
Posts: 421
Karma: 1033566
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Latvia
Device: Kindle 3 Wifi, Bookeen Opus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kali Yuga View Post
In terms of open vs closed, Amazon has a lot more clout when essentially negotiating on behalf of millions of units. I'm fairly confident they're better at negotiating with AT&T than I am.
And yet the rates they appear to pay is very high. It's not that simple because they have to take into account possible roaming abroad. There are too many risky positions that it is naive to think that they will get better rates than I can get only locally.

Quote:
Plus, working this way means one less bill in my inbox, one less thing that I have to pay for, one less thing to break.
Not for me. I use mobile internet for several devices but with one prepaid SIM card. Prepaid account that I replenish online whenever the balance is emptied.

I understand your point that with Kindle you would get the same connectivity in any part of the world without worries. But the problem is that everyone has to pay for this convenience.

Quote:
So in short, I see no evidence for your assumption that you would somehow save money or get a "more fair price" by using your own 3G connection.
I have already saved money by buying a cheaper Wi-Fi only model and using 3G whenever I need it. Besides I often use Amazon for personal document delivery to Kindle which would cost me at least 15 cents per 1 MB. As I normally send 2-3 documents daily it would cost me at least additional $10. Instead I can pay $2 for even more convenience and save $8.

Now replace the documents with publications for frequent subscribers and you get the same costs only more hidden. Your only argument is that big corporations will not pass the savings to customers but will keep them (probably to pay bonuses or whatever) which is exactly the result of closed systems.
karunaji is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2011, 10:32 AM   #15
Kali Yuga
Professional Contrarian
Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Kali Yuga's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,045
Karma: 3289631
Join Date: Mar 2009
Device: Kindle 4 No Touchie
Dude.

Seriously.

Magazine publishers and/or Amazon are obviously not going to pass on cost savings to you.

They don't do it for wifi only customers. They don't do it when the royalty rates swing 40% in favor of the magazine publishers. They don't do it when they increase the royalty rates for self-publishers. They don't do it for people who only use an app rather than buy a dedicated device. They don't do it when they renegotiate the cell service contracts.

By the way, 10p per mb is the cost they're charging the publishers. It has almost nothing to do with what Amazon is getting charged by its wireless carriers. They're almost certainly treating this as just another revenue generator, and if they didn't hit the publishers that way, they'd just charge a slightly higher royalty rate or some other miscellaneous charge.


So, yet again: You would not save one thin dime, or get any extra content, if you used your own 3g connection.

Save yourself some aggravation, and worry about things that are actually worth worrying about. Like what Lindsay Lohan will wear the next time she's in court.
Kali Yuga is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cost of ebooks you've read this year? pdurrant General Discussions 38 12-05-2010 07:35 PM
rumors, is it true that kindle 3 read pdf passwords files but kindle DXg can not? KRorschachZ Amazon Kindle 4 11-06-2010 04:35 PM
Anyone read Ghost of Achilles - True Ogre? darkthrone Reading Recommendations 1 08-26-2010 05:27 PM
Will the Amazon Kindle cost US$50? Alexander Turcic Amazon Kindle 300 12-24-2009 12:15 PM
"Why e-books cost money to publish" TadW News 34 02-14-2009 04:38 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:10 AM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.