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Old 02-12-2011, 04:28 PM   #31
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jocampo, you sound like you're unaware of many of the international issues you're commenting on.

For instance, Amazon may give you within the US free shipping; not so for those of us in other places. And while it may have a large Kindle bookstore, the international licensing restrictions imposed by Amazon prevent the sale of many of its titles outside the US. And for many of us, buying devices that don't have direct representation in our own countries means the potential cost of international freight if they need to be returned or serviced, which significantly increases the cost.

You can't extrapolate your personal experience in this to the rest of the world.
Actually, my brother has a Kindle, and does not live in USA, that's why I'm making the comment.

The issue with the copyright and some book restrictions is true, but is more title's dependent than ereader related.

And I did not mention free shipping, of course you will have to pay for that.
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Old 02-12-2011, 04:30 PM   #32
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This company will ship to Norway (I just checked):

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/

I ordered a Sony PRS-350 from them yesterday, it is on sale for $129. If you have so many epub files, I say stick with the Sony. The Kindle does seem like a good device (I'm thinking of picking up the Kindle DX myself), but in your position I wouldn't hassle myself with converting tons of books that may or may not convert well. Also, I have found that Canadian content (I'm Canadian) is more likely to be found in .epub than in a format that the Kindle can read natively; I suggest before you purchase the Kindle that you check to make sure that books that you plan on buying / reading are available to you from the Kindle store; otherwise, you might have to "liberate" and convert most things that you buy, and that would be a HUGE hassle, in my opinion. The Amazon store is great, but if you read a lot of local (Norwegian, I imagine) fiction, you might not be able to get the books that you want from them. If you only plan in reading books in English, then that's probably a different story.
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Old 02-12-2011, 05:56 PM   #33
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BTW there are people in this world who think it makes no difference if anyone else knows if they broke the law or not, they know it and that is enough. Not everyone feels comfortable doing illegal things even when the chance of getting caught might be nil. So why do you mock me, when I say it is nicer to give them the whole information?
I agree - folks should know what they are getting into. But unlike "don't cross against the red light" which is fairly clear although there may be shades of red - I challenge any normal person of reasonable intellect to figure out what is and is not permissible in the area of removing drm and one's personal use of the material.

We've had a few attorneys parse the language, the qualifiers and the exceptions and reach differing conclusions. An e-ink reader is perfect as it has all kinds of shade of gray.
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Old 02-12-2011, 07:40 PM   #34
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In order to help someone make their decision it is not really helpfull to only look at what you have in your corner of the world but what they have in their corner of the world. And here in Europe we have epub, Sony, Pocketbook and the one or other company more. I do not see the wisdom in shouting Kindle and Nook from every roof top, when there is no Kindle or Nook around here. Most students and average people find it expensive to ship their stuff around the world in case there is need to do so.
Actually, I can't get a Sony Reader officially in Norway. There is an information page on the Norwegian Sony website, but no option to buy it. There is one Sony Store in my city, but they told me they don't and won't carry any Sony Readers. A few local internet shops have them listed, but it's always a to-order item. Then there's the price. The cheapest PRS-650 I could find is ~$426. And buying it from abroad would be even more expensive.

In Kindle's case, I have access to most of Amazon's ebooks. Some titles are not available, often ebooks are a lot more expensive than hardcovers, and it takes some emailing the authors and/or publishers to get it fixed.

As far as I know, no Norwegian library offers ebook loans, and when there is an ebook version of some book available, it can be downloaded in various formats without DRM. There is only one Norwegian ebook shop, and while it does use Adobe ePubs, the selection of books is quite abysmal, and whatever books it has that I would like to buy are almost always available at Amazon for much less.

All in all, it seems that Kindle is the only viable option for me at the moment. Yes, I hate its keyboard and lack of ePub support, but given the alternative, I think I won't have any trouble adjusting to those disadvantages.

Last edited by ignis; 02-12-2011 at 07:46 PM.
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Old 02-13-2011, 02:59 AM   #35
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Actually, I can't get a Sony Reader officially in Norway. There is an information page on the Norwegian Sony website, but no option to buy it. There is one Sony Store in my city, but they told me they don't and won't carry any Sony Readers. A few local internet shops have them listed, but it's always a to-order item. Then there's the price. The cheapest PRS-650 I could find is ~$426. And buying it from abroad would be even more expensive.

In Kindle's case, I have access to most of Amazon's ebooks. Some titles are not available, often ebooks are a lot more expensive than hardcovers, and it takes some emailing the authors and/or publishers to get it fixed.

As far as I know, no Norwegian library offers ebook loans, and when there is an ebook version of some book available, it can be downloaded in various formats without DRM. There is only one Norwegian ebook shop, and while it does use Adobe ePubs, the selection of books is quite abysmal, and whatever books it has that I would like to buy are almost always available at Amazon for much less.

All in all, it seems that Kindle is the only viable option for me at the moment. Yes, I hate its keyboard and lack of ePub support, but given the alternative, I think I won't have any trouble adjusting to those disadvantages.
I am sorry. I was not aware that they are not sold officially in Norway. As I can't read Norwegian, so when I had a look at the Norwegian Sonystyle online store I took this as proof that you can get them in Norway.

BTW, you can lend English books for free from the Singapore Library.
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Old 02-13-2011, 03:53 AM   #36
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I agree - folks should know what they are getting into. But unlike "don't cross against the red light" which is fairly clear although there may be shades of red - I challenge any normal person of reasonable intellect to figure out what is and is not permissible in the area of removing drm and one's personal use of the material.

We've had a few attorneys parse the language, the qualifiers and the exceptions and reach differing conclusions. An e-ink reader is perfect as it has all kinds of shade of gray.
I Totally agree, the 1 click agreements are not legally binding. As a joke some of them have you agree to give them your eternal soul, or some other fictional thing as a joke. They can put anything in there without a law to back them up.
They will never sue over someone removing drm for personal use, so it will always be a grey area.
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Old 02-13-2011, 03:56 AM   #37
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I challenge any normal person of reasonable intellect to figure out what is and is not permissible in the area of removing drm and one's personal use of the material.
It is absolutely crystal clear in the UK: it's illegal. There is nothing to "figure out".
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Old 02-13-2011, 04:37 AM   #38
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I agree - folks should know what they are getting into. But unlike "don't cross against the red light" which is fairly clear although there may be shades of red - I challenge any normal person of reasonable intellect to figure out what is and is not permissible in the area of removing drm and one's personal use of the material.
So for you it seems to be like this: Folks come here, ask for help to which reader to buy and it goes like, doesn't matter because stripping DRM is easy. They buy a reader, for example a Kindle, that appeals to them and when they want to lend from the library, they find it does not work. When they come back here to ask for details about that DRM thingy, they are told, we can't help you here as it is illegal but have a google search. And the person that does not want to do the illegal thing and ends up with a reader they can not use without breaking the law, was then reasonable challenged in your terms of speaking???

I'd prefer to be given the whole information from the start.

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We've had a few attorneys parse the language, the qualifiers and the exceptions and reach differing conclusions. An e-ink reader is perfect as it has all kinds of shade of gray.
Ah, this is very interesting. I said, in their country it might be illegal. So either your aformentioned attorneys gave you information of every country in the world or you are just talking about your little corner of the world... Let me guess, it's the last. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news for you: The world is bigger than America. And the OP comes from Norway.
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Old 02-13-2011, 05:16 AM   #39
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Actually, I can't get a Sony Reader officially in Norway. There is an information page on the Norwegian Sony website, but no option to buy it. There is one Sony Store in my city, but they told me they don't and won't carry any Sony Readers. A few local internet shops have them listed, but it's always a to-order item. Then there's the price. The cheapest PRS-650 I could find is ~$426. And buying it from abroad would be even more expensive.

In Kindle's case, I have access to most of Amazon's ebooks. Some titles are not available, often ebooks are a lot more expensive than hardcovers, and it takes some emailing the authors and/or publishers to get it fixed.

As far as I know, no Norwegian library offers ebook loans, and when there is an ebook version of some book available, it can be downloaded in various formats without DRM. There is only one Norwegian ebook shop, and while it does use Adobe ePubs, the selection of books is quite abysmal, and whatever books it has that I would like to buy are almost always available at Amazon for much less.

All in all, it seems that Kindle is the only viable option for me at the moment. Yes, I hate its keyboard and lack of ePub support, but given the alternative, I think I won't have any trouble adjusting to those disadvantages.
I think Borders ships to Europe:

http://www.borders.com/online/store/MediaView_sonytouch

Edited to add that Borders might be going under, so be careful.

Last edited by Latinandgreek; 02-15-2011 at 04:42 PM. Reason: Borders
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Old 02-13-2011, 12:32 PM   #40
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All in all, it seems that Kindle is the only viable option for me at the moment. Yes, I hate its keyboard and lack of ePub support, but given the alternative, I think I won't have any trouble adjusting to those disadvantages.
The kindle is a nice piece of hardware, but I really wish it could get ePub support. To me stripping the DRM isn't the big deal its converting the books. I've had a few end up with formatting issues and I'm not savvy enough to figure out how to fix missing TOC or text and images that get formatted incorrectly. Its far easier to me to just keep everything in ePub and even if I strip the DRM I don't have to mess with the formatting.

I would honestly try and find any other option whether it be Kobo, Jetbook or whatever before getting a kindle, but if the kindle is all you can get shipped it is better than nothing.
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Old 02-13-2011, 01:34 PM   #41
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The kindle is a nice piece of hardware, but I really wish it could get ePub support. To me stripping the DRM isn't the big deal its converting the books. I've had a few end up with formatting issues and I'm not savvy enough to figure out how to fix missing TOC or text and images that get formatted incorrectly. Its far easier to me to just keep everything in ePub and even if I strip the DRM I don't have to mess with the formatting.

I would honestly try and find any other option whether it be Kobo, Jetbook or whatever before getting a kindle, but if the kindle is all you can get shipped it is better than nothing.
Great suggestion on the kobo. Love their bookstore, epub, wifi and inexpensive
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Old 02-14-2011, 02:42 AM   #42
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I'm sure they see the writing on the wall that pbooks sales are going to start decreasing as ebook sales are growing by leaps and bounds month over month.BOb
In fact, chyron's article links to another endgaget article in which a B&N exec claims both that the Nook product line is B&N's best-selling product ever and that B&N, too, is now selling more ebooks than pbooks online.

Now, being a press release guarantees it's chock full of "lies, damn lies and statistics". But it appears Amazon's boat may not be the only one rising with the tide.

--Nathanael
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Old 02-15-2011, 09:48 AM   #43
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Exclamation No such thing as e-books in Norwegian

I'm in Norway and happy with my Kindle 3 (when I went to pick it up at the courier's there was another person there picking up theirs, I felt like part of an ad-hoc movement =) ). I'm considering a Sony myself, for the pdf-support.

However, Norwegian publisers are TEH EVIL. You can't get Norwegian e-books, not even the classics like the Eddas and sagas. The Norw. pulblishers' plan is to bypass ereader-devices altogether and have an app (you see, only iPad counts) that connects to the web. Real renting and no owning of books!

Besides, I do believe that we have the most expensive books in the western world . This is due to the big publishers (3) owning the big bookstore chains (3, though they all also sell paper wares, pencils etc.), and you need a permit to be allowed to sell Norwegian books. Now our dear Minister of Culture is working on a law (to replace a cartel-agreement) to ensure the status quo. Oh, and paper books have no v.a.t but ebooks will have 8%!

So what happens? People who read a lot wind up reading English, that's what. Now what d'yall think will happen to the Norwegian language in just a few more generations?

Cultural suicide by greed is always nasty to observe but I'm actually having to live here...
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Old 02-15-2011, 10:02 AM   #44
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Oh, and paper books have no v.a.t but ebooks will have 8%!
Is VAT only 8% in Norway? I was under the impression that EU law required the full rate of VAT to be charged on eBooks? (eg we pay 20% VAT on eBooks here in the UK)
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Old 02-15-2011, 10:03 AM   #45
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I'm in Norway and happy with my Kindle 3 (when I went to pick it up at the courier's there was another person there picking up theirs, I felt like part of an ad-hoc movement =) ). I'm considering a Sony myself, for the pdf-support.

However, Norwegian publisers are TEH EVIL. You can't get Norwegian e-books, not even the classics like the Eddas and sagas. The Norw. pulblishers' plan is to bypass ereader-devices altogether and have an app (you see, only iPad counts) that connects to the web. Real renting and no owning of books!

Besides, I do believe that we have the most expensive books in the western world . This is due to the big publishers (3) owning the big bookstore chains (3, though they all also sell paper wares, pencils etc.), and you need a permit to be allowed to sell Norwegian books. Now our dear Minister of Culture is working on a law (to replace a cartel-agreement) to ensure the status quo. Oh, and paper books have no v.a.t but ebooks will have 8%!

So what happens? People who read a lot wind up reading English, that's what. Now what d'yall think will happen to the Norwegian language in just a few more generations?

Cultural suicide by greed is always nasty to observe but I'm actually having to live here...
That's terrible! I just did a quick check and project Gutenberg only has 15 e-books in Norwegian, I'm really surprised at that. Books in Croatia are ridiculously expensive, too, but it's a small country, so that's not surprising. Wow, I'm really surprised by this. Even here in Croatia ebooks are starting to catch on, and you can find some Croatian ebooks in epub or pdf fomat.
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