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Old 01-19-2011, 07:21 PM   #1
varlokkur
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Do Sony Readers display real page numbers?

Hello Sony Reader users,
I'm considering buying the Sony Reader daily edition, primarily for use with academic texts. I'd like to be able to replace paper editions of my books by relying on e-books, but it's necessary that I have access to the actual page numbers to do so. Does anyone know if the Sony Readers' page numbers usually correspond to the numbers in a printed edition of the same book?
Thanks
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Old 01-19-2011, 07:27 PM   #2
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No ... and yes

The number you see at the bottom (page X of Y) is not the number of a text version, but the "Epub" number (based on blocks of characters as a "unit"). However, many PDF books are captures of (a) print version, with those page numbers available.
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Old 01-19-2011, 10:50 PM   #3
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Hello there. I am interested in this conversation because I, too, use my Sony (PRS-650) to read academic material, highlight portions of texts and cite references.

SeaBookGuy covers all the basics: if your file is a PDF, then the page numbers on the printed copy will be preserved.

But, if I may be so forward, how do you plan on "replacing" the paper editions of your books and relying entirely on e-books, varlokkur? Will you personally be digitizing your entire printed library? If so, I'd be curious to know how to do that.

Or did you mean that you will be relying on e-books from now on?

I only ask this because, it seems to me, the whole digital era has come to challenge the idea of exact page references. A "page" is a paper medium for printed communication. It is a relative measure. Books that are published directly in digital form, for example, have no need of page numbers: they are strings of text only.

I guess what I'm suggesting is that, yes, one should cite an exact page reference when possible. But, also, it might be time that academics stop slaving over such miniscule and menial tasks as collating page references. People can, after all, just search for the key word now...

Just a thought. Thanks for listening!
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Old 01-20-2011, 01:22 AM   #4
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I've found that many EPUBs also use the page numbers of the printed versions. It's important to me for some texts because, like you, I need to cite references.

you can also list the "EPUB edition" in your Works Cited, which is accepted by most but not all. After all, not all print editions have the same page numbering (different publishers, different editions, hardback vs paperback, etc)
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Old 01-20-2011, 11:45 AM   #5
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Exactly, doreenjoy! The idea is for someone else to be able to find the same string of text. The reference will need different info depending on the edition used.

Think of ancient texts: the reference is usually to a line number. It's up to you what edition or translation you use, each with different (and unimportant) page numbers.
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Old 01-20-2011, 01:12 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMaloney View Post
Hello there. I am interested in this conversation because I, too, use my Sony (PRS-650) to read academic material, highlight portions of texts and cite references.

SeaBookGuy covers all the basics: if your file is a PDF, then the page numbers on the printed copy will be preserved.

But, if I may be so forward, how do you plan on "replacing" the paper editions of your books and relying entirely on e-books, varlokkur? Will you personally be digitizing your entire printed library? If so, I'd be curious to know how to do that.

Or did you mean that you will be relying on e-books from now on?

I only ask this because, it seems to me, the whole digital era has come to challenge the idea of exact page references. A "page" is a paper medium for printed communication. It is a relative measure. Books that are published directly in digital form, for example, have no need of page numbers: they are strings of text only.

I guess what I'm suggesting is that, yes, one should cite an exact page reference when possible. But, also, it might be time that academics stop slaving over such miniscule and menial tasks as collating page references. People can, after all, just search for the key word now...

Just a thought. Thanks for listening!
This is a brilliant observation. There has been a lot of debate about the need of page numbers and whether they are relevant. I personally like page numbers when I'm reading, though I don't mind when they change due to font change. I like the "160 of 444" scheme much more than "position 44167". I think people are used to page numbers.

You are the first person I've seen recommend eliminating page numbers in reference notes, and I think you are absolutely right. We live in a key word society. I was researching coffee drinking the other day and was able to search for "coffee" and find every use of the word in 10 novels. It took me about 5 minutes. How hard would it be to list a few key words in a footnote/endnote? This makes sense not only for ebooks, but the fact that in education new editions come out yearly now and we reference so much information on the web.
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Old 01-20-2011, 06:24 PM   #7
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I thought the purpose of citations was as much about plagiarism, as folks interested in the specific cite as subject matter? In this day and age, if there isn't yet a standard way to cite ebooks (by Kindle location or Epub page), there soon should be!

The only thing about seeing "page 982 of 1200" for me not long ago was the "surprise ending" shortly thereafter (around page 1000 or so), as the rest was endnotes, etc.
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Old 01-20-2011, 11:56 PM   #8
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Now that's the one thing I dislike about eReaders as opposed to paper... just finished a book of 2958 pages only to suddenly grind to a halt around 2860, the rest character details and endnotes... with paper you can at least glance at the back to see if they're there...


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The only thing about seeing "page 982 of 1200" for me not long ago was the "surprise ending" shortly thereafter (around page 1000 or so), as the rest was endnotes, etc.
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Old 01-21-2011, 12:05 AM   #9
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I now check the table of contents before getting that far, so it doesn't happen again!

TWO THOUSAND NINE HUNDRED AND FIFTY EIGHT PAGES?????
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Old 01-21-2011, 12:16 AM   #10
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Thanks so much, HistoryWes! I'd love to hear what others have to say about this question. Where did you read about it, if you don't mind me asking?

You hit the mark when you say we are "used" to page numbers, and it's not an easily changed habit. I've found that I am very dependent on the page when actively recalling something I've read. It's hard to explain: it's like the page makes a visual frame in my memory - a white backdrop - and I zoom in. The loss of that reference (top or bottom of the page, left or right side of the open book) has actually made itself felt now and again ("Now where exactly did I read that?") since I've switched to the reader.

Also what SeaBookGuy and elcreative said: a loss of pages means losing "flipping convenience." Now you can't just check to see when the story really ends, or glance to see where the pictures are...

But those are just growing pains! We have to embrace the wonderful things digitalization brings to books (word search, variable font size, easy storage/transport). If this means learning a new way to read and recall, then so be it! It might also mean splitting your reading into 2 - "flipping" through your ebook on the computer first and reading in detail on the e-reader later.

It also means, I think, we have to devise a new way to document books and, therefore, establish a new way to refer to them.

One last thing. The printed page is still the "real" one in the sense of being the definitive, official copy. Any academics out there will know that it is important to use reliable text sources. The guarantee of the printed copy comes from the name of the publisher. A student can rely on the translation of Derrida offered by Routledge, for example; one should be wary about citing an html copy of Writing and Difference downloaded from the internet...

But that leads us just a little

Sorry to yammer on like that! Have a great day!
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Old 01-21-2011, 12:41 AM   #11
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TWO THOUSAND NINE HUNDRED AND FIFTY EIGHT PAGES?????
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Old 01-21-2011, 12:48 AM   #12
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Great. Thanks!
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Old 01-21-2011, 01:11 AM   #13
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I always check the table of contents now to see where the footnotes start. That way I can mentally prepare myself for where the book really ends. Also if you are reading a biography, the photos are sometimes grouped and listed in the ToC. I cheat and look at these before I read the story!

I just finished a book this week that had a reminder note in the index that you are reading the e-version and that the index is based on the pbook numbers. Therefore the pages in the index would not correlate to the pages in the ebook. It recommended that instead you use your ereader's search feature using the key words in the index to find the item in the ebook. So I tested a few key words and that method actually worked quite well. I read quite a few non-fiction books. I have never seen a disclaimer like this before. I wonder if that will become more common? The book was released in October 2010 so it is recent.
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Old 01-21-2011, 06:04 PM   #14
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That's a very odd example, Bookworm_Girl. Why would they bother to type out and include a disclaimer and not simply update the index? It demonstrates why people think the publishing companies are intentionally trying to sabotage ebooks. (I don't know if it's true, but people sure think it is, like as is shown in this thread).
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Old 01-21-2011, 08:01 PM   #15
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They probably don't want to spend the money would be my guess.
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