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Old 01-19-2011, 07:05 PM   #31
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Sadly I think this may be more than the "average" person reads per year though.
13 books per year is around 12-13 more than average, I think.
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Old 01-19-2011, 07:12 PM   #32
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You can't beat books for less than a dollar at a thrift store or garage sale. Last time I went I got 3 or 4 books for $2. I guess the next question is, is it unethical to "find" the ebook if you own the paperback?
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Old 01-19-2011, 07:15 PM   #33
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Hold on! My idea of an "avid reader" is someone who reads a lot. Their idea of an "avid reader" is someone who spends a lot.

The report completely ignores free books. I have had my jetBook Lite for a year now, and I have yet to buy an eBook. I've downloaded so many from the MR library, munseys.com and now the Amazon free books.

On the other hand, this past year I joined the Doubleday and Quality Paperback Book Clubs, and I purchased a greater number of books than since I can remember (including many gifts for family).

If they had limited their survey to new fiction, for example, it might have some interest. But as it is, I just don't think that it proves anything.
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Old 01-19-2011, 08:22 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by CleverClothe View Post
Ah, how to lie with statistics. Unless the article is getting the question wrong, it was only asking about ebooks.
They aren't "lying with statistics."

These folks have run a few surveys, dating back to 2009. They seem to re-run the same survey twice a year. Apparently this year they find:

• 26.8% of ebook device owners plan to buy 13 or more ebooks next year.
• "Roughly" the same percentage of ALL book buyers plan to buy 13 or more books of ANY type.
• Earlier surveys indicate that "ebook reader owners" still planned to buy paper books (slide #38 in the link below) in the coming year. (See slide #38 in the link below)

What's so unclear or manipulative about that?


Quote:
Originally Posted by CleverClothe
You could easily have people who are buying 12 pbooks and 1 ebook, so they would answer "1" to that question. Doesn't mean they are not an avid reader.
They offer multiple definitions of "avid readers" in their surveys (the most recent available btw is from April 2010).

One is "planning to buy 10+ books per year." Another is "reads 5+ hours per week."

But, one of their points point apparently is that the percentage of people who plan to buy 13+ ebooks next year is about the same as the percent who plan to buy 13+ books in any format next year. Not really seeing a problem.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CleverClothe
Also, there is no telling how much overlap there is between the 26.8% in the first question that was talked about, and the 25.8% in the later question....
It's barely relevant.

Ebook penetration is still at 10% or less in the survey population. 25% of that is, oh, 2.5% of the entire sample population. Not really that significant.

The more critical element, especially for indie booksellers, is that the avid buyers are a) reproducing their habits in digital form, and b) might not be abandoning paper books after all.

I've seen other stats which indicate that once you go digital you mostly discontinue paper purchases. However I don't think Verso is lying or manipulating the figures, they're just getting different results.
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Old 01-19-2011, 08:28 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by GA Russell View Post
Hold on! My idea of an "avid reader" is someone who reads a lot. Their idea of an "avid reader" is someone who spends a lot....
Aww, you're left out huh? Perhaps you should wrap yourself in a Snuggie to make yourself feel better.

On a less sarcastic note, it's a survey that is designed to provide booksellers with helpful information about buying trends.

If you aren't buying books, these organizations have no particular reason to concern themselves with your behavior.
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Old 01-19-2011, 08:40 PM   #36
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Agency ebook: $6.99 NO DISCOUNTING WHATSOEVER ALLOWED

Paperback (new): $6.99 -- fully eligible for Borders coupon discount


You do the math ...
You spent over $200 on an e-reader when you could have spent nothing and continued to read paper books. The "math" doesn't work.

Sometimes people pay for convenience. In fact, I think that's the biggest thing that e-readers offer.
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Old 01-19-2011, 09:19 PM   #37
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Ah, it is Kali again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kali Yuga View Post
One is "planning to buy 10+ books per year." Another is "reads 5+ hours per week."

But, one of their points point apparently is that the percentage of people who plan to buy 13+ ebooks next year is about the same as the percent who plan to buy 13+ books in any format next year. Not really seeing a problem.
First, that isn't what the article stated. It asserted that there was roughly the same percentage of avid readers in the ereader group as the whole population. But the question was about buying ebooks only, not all books. Ebooks being a subset of books, so you can't compare to the whole population.

Second, I read through the presentation of the survey results and see that the article got it wrong. Here is a quote from the conclusions of the survey (no emphasis added):

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso Digital
Avid e-reader owners are now buying proportionately the same number of e-books that avid readers buy books generally
Of course, I don't think this is a vary useful observation myself, but it is a reasonable statement based on the actual data gathered by the survey.
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Old 01-19-2011, 10:16 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CleverClothe View Post
First, that isn't what the article stated. It asserted that there was roughly the same percentage of avid readers in the ereader group as the whole population.
Yes. That's exactly what I'm saying, and what the article said.

I.e., in April 2010:
Avid ebook readers = ~25% of all ebook readers (Slide 37 from the 4/10 survey)
Avid readers of ALL types = ~29% (Slide 12 from the 4/10 survey)

Presumably these numbers have narrowed in the December 2010 survey.

What, exactly, are you failing to comprehend about this claim?


Quote:
Originally Posted by CleverClothe
But the question was about buying ebooks only, not all books. Ebooks being a subset of books, so you can't compare to the whole population.
What "question" are you talking about?

The survey included topics such as:
• Among people who already own ebook reading devices, how many ebooks do you plan to buy next year? (Slide 37)
• Among people who already own ebook reading devices, how many paper books do you plan to buy next year? (Slide 38)

Further, they are asserting that, and I'll type it yet again:
• Among people who already own ebook reading devices, about 25% fit into a profile of "avid book buyers" (13+ per year)
• From all people in the survey, about 25% plan to buy 13+ books next year
• The buying habits of people who own ebook readers roughly matches the buying habits of people who don't own ebook readers
• This similarity suggests that ebook readers are no longer just early adopters, they're roughly the same as the general population

For my part I'd want some additional comparisons, namely age, income, ethnicity and gender -- and who knows, perhaps they did slice up that data. Perhaps they're omitting that data for brevity or simplicity. At the absolute worst, they're jumping to conclusions.

But I really do not see anything in all this that suggests that Verso is "lying" (your term) or manipulating the stats.
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Old 01-19-2011, 10:33 PM   #39
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So where is the question where they are asking e-book readers specifically if they are purchasing as many paper books as they did before? More then 10 doesn't mean they're buying as many as before.
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Old 01-19-2011, 10:35 PM   #40
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I use my e-reader for free books and digitized versions of paperbacks or hardcovers I already own. I'd probably re-buy those digitized versions more if the pricing made any sense whatsoever. I'm not interested in paying $8 for an e-book of something I can get for $2 at a local used bookstore.

If I'm going to spend $14 for a hardcover, it's going to get put in a nice acid free book jacket protector and put on a shelf. Where in 20 years I can still read it again.

For books I'd like in paperback, I'd prefer to buy e-books. But I'm not buying a DRM'd, non-transferable product for more than it takes to ship a physical product to my doorstep.

So I'm doing both. Mostly still print books, in fact, especially hardcovers.

Not to mention used hardcovers. I probably buy used hardcovers of my favorites more than anything.

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Old 01-19-2011, 10:37 PM   #41
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Wonder if these were fairly new to ebook readers...it took about 3 years before I stopped buying print books altogether. I'm sure if I'd made lists, I would have seen decreasing print books to ebooks over the 3 year period.

I bought two print books last year - and those were just to try to persuade the publisher to keep printing a favorite author (and that didn't work, she's been let go). Those books were donated to my local library.
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Old 01-19-2011, 11:51 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kali Yuga View Post
Aww, you're left out huh? Perhaps you should wrap yourself in a Snuggie to make yourself feel better.

On a less sarcastic note, it's a survey that is designed to provide booksellers with helpful information about buying trends.

If you aren't buying books, these organizations have no particular reason to concern themselves with your behavior.
I think that if I am not buying books, but I am getting lots of free books they should be concerned with my behavior. Maybe I'm getting more free books because I think they charge too much for ebooks (when the cost is close to the same or higher than dead tree books).

I haven't bought a dead tree book since I got my first ereader almost a year ago.
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Old 01-20-2011, 12:01 AM   #43
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It took me a while to let go of my paper books. I am now down to 4 smaller books shelves rather than 7. And I don't see myself buying paper books unless I see them on sale at a used book store. It will all be eBooks for me.

I've even bought my first eBook over $7 yesterday. I read Level 26: Dark Origins, and was so happy with it that I immediately bought the 2nd book that came out in October for $13. I don't think that will be the "norm" for me, but I thought that Anthony Zuiker did a great job with the story and I had to continue it LOL.
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Old 01-20-2011, 01:29 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Kali Yuga View Post
...it's a survey that is designed to provide booksellers with helpful information about buying trends.

If you aren't buying books, these organizations have no particular reason to concern themselves with your behavior.
Perhaps my initial reaction would have been different if they had referred to their best customers as "avid spenders" rather than "avid readers".

Nevertheless, if I have spent the big bucks on an eBook reader yet I am not spending money on eBooks, it would seem to me that that is a behavior both publishers and booksellers ought to be interested in knowing about.

I think it is Dennis who has often pointed out that reading is not something that can be done in the background, and that the commodity of which there is a finite supply is time.

So if I am spending my limited time reading free eBooks after spending a lot of money on an eBook reader, the industry would probably want to know how much less money I am spending on books this year as opposed to the year before I bought my device (or in the alternative, if I am merely increasing my reading with free books while spending the same or more money on hardcopies).

Last edited by GA Russell; 01-20-2011 at 01:37 AM.
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Old 01-20-2011, 01:53 AM   #45
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Perhaps my initial reaction would have been different if they had referred to their best customers as "avid spenders" rather than "avid readers".

Nevertheless, if I have spent the big bucks on an eBook reader yet I am not spending money on eBooks, it would seem to me that that is a behavior both publishers and booksellers ought to be interested in knowing about.

I think it is Dennis who has often pointed out that reading is not something that can be done in the background, and that the commodity of which there is a finite supply is time.

So if I am spending my limited time reading free eBooks after spending a lot of money on an eBook reader, the industry would probably want to know how much less money I am spending on books this year as opposed to the year before I bought my device (or in the alternative, if I am merely increasing my reading with free books while spending the same or more money on hardcopies).
Many posters (not you specifically) say they're fine reading free e-books and say they don't see much editorial value in what publishers do. If that's true, then publishers shouldn't bother competing for that type of business. There's no money to be made from people who want something for free and who don't value your product. If those readers are truthful, then they shouldn't bother caring how much big publishers charge; they're already getting what they want for free elsewhere.

There are readers who are willing to spend a few bucks per e-book, and it seems big publishers aren't interested in that proposition either. So they're probably going to keep focusing on people who spend more on books. Maybe that won't work out, so big publishers will either overhaul themselves or go out of business in the next decade or so. For the short term, publishers have fixed legacy costs and are still selling considerably more print books vs. e-books, so they'll probably hold out as long as possible.

On a separate thread, a good number of posters say they used to buy mainly used books before they bought e-readers. I doubt publishers are interested in producing for those readers, either. There's practically no money to be made at used-book prices, except for those who own the used-book businesses. Those books were essentially subsidized by the people who bought them new, then resold them. Those buyers -- of new books -- are the crowd that publishers actually care about.
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