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Old 01-18-2011, 12:07 AM   #1
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How to get the Kindle 3 to display page #'s?

Hello everyone. I have a Kindle 3. I am reading a book and at the bottom opf the display I see the completed % of the book and a location number. Why no page numbers like a real book? My mother has a B&N Nook and we are reading the same book (different format of course) and she has page numbers in her book so she knows where she is in the book. How do I make this happen in a Kindle?
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Old 01-18-2011, 12:23 AM   #2
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to the best of my knowledge this has not been worked out. the Kindle displays the location vis-a-vis how many characters into the book the reader is. this is due to the ability to change the font size afaik
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Old 01-18-2011, 12:44 AM   #3
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The page number on a Nook is also based on a character count, so it isn't a true page count but it is more useful as an indicator of where you are in the ebook than locations.

One work around is to divide the location by ten (just drop the last digit of the first number and ignore the 2nd). This is effectively a page count similar to what is used on the Nook, but still with slightly smaller "pages". If you need to go to a page, add a zero on the end of the page to get a page start location.
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Old 01-18-2011, 01:11 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s1mp13m4n View Post
Hello everyone. I have a Kindle 3. I am reading a book and at the bottom opf the display I see the completed % of the book and a location number. Why no page numbers like a real book? My mother has a B&N Nook and we are reading the same book (different format of course) and she has page numbers in her book so she knows where she is in the book. How do I make this happen in a Kindle?
I'm curious... what do you intend to use the page numbers for? As a software engineer we often have to ask the question, "what problem are you trying to solve?" when somebody asks for a specific solution. The answer to that question often leads to a better solution. I suspect that page numbers are often requested because people want what they're used to, but, consider:

1) Page numbers (screen number) on an ebook reader would be relative to font & margin sizes, so they can't be used to refer to a location in the book when talking to somebody else about a location in the book. Your mom's nook color has different fonts, screen size, etc, so if she told you about something on page 72 it'd be of no meaning to you on your Kindle.
2) Percentage complete is just as useful as "page 50 of 782" for letting you know how much is left (once you get used to the change)
3) The kindle location value will take you directly to the exact spot if you need to refer to a specific piece of text in a class or other similar setting.

I'm not really sure how page numbers would help other than comfort for those of us who grew up with paper books.
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Old 01-18-2011, 02:19 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by twowheels View Post
Page numbers (screen number) on an ebook reader would be relative to font & margin sizes, so they can't be used to refer to a location in the book when talking to somebody else about a location in the book.
Both ePub and Kindle use byte counts for locations. Adobe's method with ePubs create psudo-pages, which appear to be about a standard page length. Amazon chose to use 128-byte chunks, presumably because they were not like pages. This was a huge human factors mistake. If they had chosen 1000-byte to 2000-byte chunks, locations would have been "page like", and they could still exactly identify a location by adding the page offset.

Mathematically, the two schemes are very similar. The Adobe scheme is actually a bit of a mess (1.5KB chunks of the compressed files, rounded to a whole number of pages per chapter). But it looks like real pages. The choice of 128-byte chunks by Amazon make the offset a small number, and it in general about as good mathematically as any other chunk size. But readers would have been much happier with a larger size nearer to the pages they are used to.

In any case, since none of these schemes refer back to an external source (e.g. the actual page numbrs in a physical book) they can't be compared between ebook formats. The PDF format does give real pages, but that makes it a less good reflowable format than AZW/MOBI and ePub.
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Old 01-18-2011, 02:35 AM   #6
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I'm also curious regarding this question. I've just got my Kindle after Christmas with the intent of putting books on it to be read for my Graduate program I am in. In some of my writings, I need to refer to a page number in my citation. Does anyone else know if there is an answer as to how this can be done within the Kindle itself? I could look up many of the books on Google books and find the page number on there, but that would be a time consuming process when citing many references.
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Old 01-18-2011, 02:38 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by bendable View Post
I'm also curious regarding this question. I've just got my Kindle after Christmas with the intent of putting books on it to be read for my Graduate program I am in. In some of my writings, I need to refer to a page number in my citation. Does anyone else know if there is an answer as to how this can be done within the Kindle itself? I could look up many of the books on Google books and find the page number on there, but that would be a time consuming process when citing many references.
No, it's not possible. Think of it like a different edition of the same book. The large print book vs. the standard print book vs. the same book by another publisher all have different page numbers. I'd suggest asking your professors if they'll accept a byte offset location from the ebook edition -- I guess it depends if you're talking about published papers or just homework.
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Old 01-18-2011, 02:52 AM   #8
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Id like to atleast see how many pages I have until the next chapter. example of the display would be like P.144/185. Meaning I have 41 pages to go until the next chapter.

The reason would be if I have to stop reading to do something else, I can atleast stop at the beginning of a new chapter instead of laying the K3 down in the middle of one.

Ive never edited a book for a Kindle, so im not sure if this is possible, I just know the epub books for Stanza had chapter breaks, which let the app know when the next chapter began.
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Old 01-18-2011, 04:40 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bendable View Post
I'm also curious regarding this question. I've just got my Kindle after Christmas with the intent of putting books on it to be read for my Graduate program I am in. In some of my writings, I need to refer to a page number in my citation. Does anyone else know if there is an answer as to how this can be done within the Kindle itself? I could look up many of the books on Google books and find the page number on there, but that would be a time consuming process when citing many references.
eBooks do not have page numbers. How could they? It depends how big the screen is, and how large a font the user has selected. A position in the file (which is what Kindle "locations" and ADE "pages" both are) is all that can be done.
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Old 01-18-2011, 07:06 AM   #10
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I find current system "too precise"! While being mathematically correct it is ideal for "nerds" (no negative connotation here - am i one of them) but it is too anal retentive for "normal humans". It is seems that the Kindle paging system was created by software designers and not by good human interaction designers.
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Old 01-18-2011, 09:02 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bendable View Post
...In some of my writings, I need to refer to a page number in my citation. Does anyone else know if there is an answer as to how this can be done within the Kindle itself? ...
Give this essay a read:

http://www.edukindle.com/2010/08/why...on-the-kindle/
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Old 01-18-2011, 10:02 AM   #12
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It took quite a while to ignore the lack of page numbers and just use the percentage indicator (the bar is nice but hard to see at times).

I can see the need for Locations in order to pinpoint a specific passage - but it has to be paired with a specific file type and provider (listing the total locations helps). It doesn't help if you've edited the text in some way, which is fair enough.

But since I'm not doing citations, for the most part I just use them to tell me how far into a book I am and how much more I have to go. Why do I need to know where I am - not sure, but its probably less of a concern the better a book is... The percentage/bar works for this so I'd rather not see the Location information (but it would be good to have it available when pressing Menu - like the time is shown when pressing Menu).

I occasionally wonder if the page numbers should just be the number of screens you've read and how many are left - and have this change depending on font/orientation. It might be more relevant to know how many page clicks there are left. Useless for reference, but not for the current reading session. I know I definitely don't like it when page/location/other numbers don't change when you've clicked forward (like when viewing PDFs with their own page numbers) - its as if you haven't moved anywhere. Percentage numbers have this issue, so I just try to ignore it and get on with the reading.
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Old 01-18-2011, 10:13 AM   #13
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The APA has defined citation styles for referencing ebooks. Google is your friend. Try "APA citation ebook"
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Old 01-18-2011, 10:22 AM   #14
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Page numbers are also artificial.

Page numbers in pBooks are also artificial and NOT standard. For example, numbers of pages vary if the pBook is hardcover, softcover, includes footnotes and / or includes pictures. Also, language used changes the number of pages. Publication date also changed the number of pages.

Location and especially percentage in Kindle eBooks are far more informative.

However, if using references to a Kindle eBook, one could show that its a Kindle eBook, date of publication and then use location. That would lock in the reference. If one uses highlights or notes, that information is already stored at the Amazon site for one'e perusal after finishing the book here:

https://kindle.amazon.com/home/welcome


If determining how far one has read, percentage read is still the best indication. When reading pBooks in the past, I always marked down the total pages and then did a mental calculation dividing my current page by the total.
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Old 01-18-2011, 10:45 AM   #15
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I just wish the Kindle apps on iOS, PC and Mac have the same location bar as the K3 device, that is it shows percentage of book completed and has markers for each chapter. Really handy but why is it missing from the apps?
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