Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > Writers' Corner

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-04-2011, 09:39 AM   #16
Billi
Wizard
Billi ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Billi ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Billi ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Billi ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Billi ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Billi ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Billi ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Billi ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Billi ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Billi ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Billi ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Billi's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,177
Karma: 13076317
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Berlin
Device: Cybook, iRex, PB, Onyx
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
Ah, one of my favourite etymological questions . Thank you for asking.
Thanks to you and pdurrant for answering.
Billi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2011, 10:14 AM   #17
John Carroll
kookoo
John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
John Carroll's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,159
Karma: 6935816
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Colorado Springs
Device: Kindle Touch, Nook
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
I notice, by the way, that even though you say that you generally avoid the word "don't", you've actually used it in the above post.
*grin* I did notice that. I was wondering if anyone else would.

Quote:
You say that you write "very formal". I think you meant "formally". Adverb (qualifying the verb "write") not adjective.
Good catch.
John Carroll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2011, 10:22 AM   #18
John Carroll
kookoo
John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
John Carroll's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,159
Karma: 6935816
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Colorado Springs
Device: Kindle Touch, Nook
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gudy View Post
I can only speak for myself here. I have no problem with contractions, although things like "I'd've" and "wouldn't've", disrupt my reading flow a bit because they are relatively uncommon.

What bugs me, personally, far more than contractions are people who can't keep their tenses straight or constantly mix up their homophones. In my opinion, if you can't keep things like they're/their/there, here/hear, or sole/soul straight, and you can't be bothered to employ an editor who can, you have no business inflicting your writing on the world.
I do avoid the most complicated contractions. As far as the homophones, I'm excellent at catching those during editing. It's terrible trying to read them on facebook though, especially from teenagers. Sometimes I think I'm going to explode. I believe Homophones happen to writers most when they write while tired.

Interestingly enough, Microsoft Word catches most instances of 'its' and I would imagine it does on other programs as well, so there's very little reason why it should be an issue for writers.
John Carroll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2011, 10:27 AM   #19
John Carroll
kookoo
John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
John Carroll's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,159
Karma: 6935816
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Colorado Springs
Device: Kindle Touch, Nook
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billi View Post
I wouldn’t like it if an American writer would edit his works especially for ESL readers. We want to learn your language as you speak and write it and not a polished version!

My greatest problem with American books are the measuring units. I never know how many feet or stones make a small/tall or thin/fat person. But that you can’t change because than your home audience wouldn’t understand you.
Thank you so much for that answer! It's exactly what I wanted to know.

As far as the units of measurement, I actually debated about that for months before deciding to use feet and inches. I considered 'paces' and 'days travel' as units of measure too. In the end, the standard units of measurement were easiest for me to write and I figured European readers would be used to Americans doing whatever they wanted. *grin*
John Carroll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2011, 11:22 AM   #20
Ivy
Sometimes I purr.
Ivy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ivy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ivy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ivy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ivy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ivy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ivy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ivy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ivy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ivy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ivy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Ivy's Avatar
 
Posts: 249
Karma: 5979384
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Texas, USA
Device: Sony PRS-650RC, iPhone 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Carroll View Post
I just wonder if making contractions is hard for readers who read English as a second language. If so, are there any inparticular that make it difficult?
I guess this depends on one's level of English. I have no problem with it (I'm not a native speaker) and I think most people that know English well enough to read books will not have problems either.

I was following a Twitter account that went around correcting people's grammatical errors and I was impressed with all the stupid mistakes people were doing! I know you're/your and there/their/they're are common mistakes but I had never heard of, or seen someone say "would of" instead of "would have" before and this guy kept correcting them.
All of these people were native English speakers.

Now, I bring this up to make an observation - foreigners often know better grammar and grammatical rules of a certain language than the native speakers. I am obviously not comparing a student of English and an English writer, but for normal people this is usually true.

Native speakers usually "just know" the rules, without knowing them, because they sound right to their ear. They will use present perfect when needed because they know the sentence requires it, but will often be unable to explain why it is so. People that take English as a foreign language have to be taught when to use present perfect so they will know to use it when they refer to a past event that has visible consequences in the present.

I don't think contractions make it much harder. Yes, sometimes it would be easier without them, but the problem most people have is usually vocabulary in my experience. My mother used to read romances in English and she would much more often ask for a meaning of a word than for help with some tense.


I'm writing from personal experience - I studied several foreign languages and my observation applies to other languages too, not just English.
Ivy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2011, 11:30 AM   #21
HarryT
eBook Enthusiast
HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HarryT's Avatar
 
Posts: 62,698
Karma: 40387231
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: PW2, iPad Retina Mini, iPhone 4, MS Surface Pro, Onyx T68, N7,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
Now, I bring this up to make an observation - foreigners often know better grammar and grammatical rules of a certain language than the native speakers. I am obviously not comparing a student of English and an English writer, but for normal people this is usually true.
[/SIZE]
Yes, this is absolutely true. I've often noticed it myself.
HarryT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2011, 11:58 AM   #22
bhartman36
Wizard
bhartman36 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bhartman36 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bhartman36 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bhartman36 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bhartman36 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bhartman36 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bhartman36 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bhartman36 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bhartman36 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bhartman36 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bhartman36 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
bhartman36's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,315
Karma: 1515835
Join Date: Mar 2009
Device: Kindle 3 Wi-Fi, Craig CMP738a Android Tablet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
I know you're/your and there/their/they're are common mistakes but I had never heard of, or seen someone say "would of" instead of "would have" before and this guy kept correcting them.
All of these people were native English speakers.
This is a big problem, IMHO. I see a lot of people doing this, and it bugs me. I think it's because in business writing (and lots of other forms of formal writing) contractions are discouraged. That pains me, because it discourages people from writing economically. It also increases the confusion when you get to the more complicated parts of spoken English, like "couldn't've", which a lot of people will write as "couldn't of".

That's one thing I've noticed about my (limited) exposure to written French. They use contractions a lot more liberally, You can, if you want, express "I love you" in French in all one word: "J't'aime". (I have to admit that I'm not 100% sure if that's proper French, but I've seen it written that way.)
bhartman36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2011, 12:41 PM   #23
John Carroll
kookoo
John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
John Carroll's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,159
Karma: 6935816
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Colorado Springs
Device: Kindle Touch, Nook
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
but I had never heard of, or seen someone say "would of" instead of "would have" before and this guy kept correcting them.
This is one of my absolute biggest pet peeves. Americans say "would've" all the time and phonetically it sounds like "would of" so they spell it that way. I correct just about everyone on my facebook page who does that. I can't help it, it drives me nuts. I've even corrected a couple of my friends who are teachers! *facepalm*
John Carroll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2011, 01:40 PM   #24
Ivy
Sometimes I purr.
Ivy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ivy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ivy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ivy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ivy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ivy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ivy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ivy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ivy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ivy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ivy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Ivy's Avatar
 
Posts: 249
Karma: 5979384
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Texas, USA
Device: Sony PRS-650RC, iPhone 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Carroll View Post
I've even corrected a couple of my friends who are teachers! *facepalm*
Here you go:

Unfortunately, even teachers make dreadful mistakes. I'm neither studying English nor am I a native speaker, so it's really not my place to comment on anybody's level of English, but... A friend of mine was trying out online dating for a while and he became friends with a teacher from the UK. He copy/pasted some of her messages because I had refused to believe she makes errors as often and as badly as he had said... He proved me wrong.


I guess we could conclude people in general don't know the language as well as they should - for whatever reason. Some are not native speakers, some are -- it really doesn't matter in the end. I don't think one should try to accommodate them and lower the bar even more. It would just help with the deteriorating knowledge of English (or any other language).
Ivy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2011, 02:51 PM   #25
John Carroll
kookoo
John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
John Carroll's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,159
Karma: 6935816
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Colorado Springs
Device: Kindle Touch, Nook
Having a fairly active online life, I have a few friends from other countries and English is not their first language. I don't have a problem at all when the language barrier shows in their writing. I expect it and help them improve on occasion.

I don't even mind occasional typos or grammar issues with posts on forums, or in IM even from people when English is their first language.

At the same time, I have kids, like my 13 year old who write like this: "yes know the rest of the day im going to be going trough and doing all the qs and then ill enter thim because thats the quize and my hopes r to get to the finall for vocab"

I know teaching is hard, but educators should know the basics of language. I've been putting in overtime to work on his grammar and spelling. It was much worse before this year.
John Carroll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2011, 03:26 PM   #26
Lemurion
eReader
Lemurion ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lemurion ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lemurion ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lemurion ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lemurion ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lemurion ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lemurion ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lemurion ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lemurion ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lemurion ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lemurion ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Lemurion's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,575
Karma: 4215144
Join Date: Aug 2007
Device: iPhone 3GS; Kindle 4 (Black); Nook HD+
I know that many non-native speakers are overly formal in their speech, but I can't say that I've heard too many complaints about contractions being hard to follow in writing.

"Would of" drives me nuts too, as does "where is it at?" I'm not sure if it's the "where" or the "at" that gives people the problem, but one of them does. My stepdaughter's text speak is another thing - it's really painful to read.
Lemurion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2011, 03:49 PM   #27
John Carroll
kookoo
John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
John Carroll's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,159
Karma: 6935816
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Colorado Springs
Device: Kindle Touch, Nook
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemurion View Post
I know that many non-native speakers are overly formal in their speech, but I can't say that I've heard too many complaints about contractions being hard to follow in writing.

"Would of" drives me nuts too, as does "where is it at?" I'm not sure if it's the "where" or the "at" that gives people the problem, but one of them does. My stepdaughter's text speak is another thing - it's really painful to read.
I'm getting used to the text speak. My oldest daughter sends/receives about 5k-8k texts per month. I've watched her hold conversations with 4 people while watching shows with us. It's actually rather impressive multi-tasking. I still use puncutation in texts. lmao.
John Carroll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2011, 04:14 PM   #28
Lemurion
eReader
Lemurion ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lemurion ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lemurion ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lemurion ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lemurion ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lemurion ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lemurion ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lemurion ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lemurion ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lemurion ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lemurion ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Lemurion's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,575
Karma: 4215144
Join Date: Aug 2007
Device: iPhone 3GS; Kindle 4 (Black); Nook HD+
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Carroll View Post
I'm getting used to the text speak. My oldest daughter sends/receives about 5k-8k texts per month. I've watched her hold conversations with 4 people while watching shows with us. It's actually rather impressive multi-tasking. I still use puncutation in texts. lmao.
I'm with you - my stepdaughter's in the same range with texts, as is her 20 year old brother. I either spell and punctuate reasonably correctly, or let voice recognition handle it.

The multi-tasking is impressive - but I just wish she would avoid some of the affectations in bad spelling. (I can somewhat understand the abbreviations though I don't like many of them - but things like "boi" for boy make me want to gag.) That and her habit of wanting to text rather than call when I've just told her I'm coming to pick her up. I've got a bluetooth, I can take her call; but her texts are going to have to wait until I stop driving.
Lemurion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2011, 04:30 PM   #29
John Carroll
kookoo
John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.John Carroll ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
John Carroll's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,159
Karma: 6935816
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Colorado Springs
Device: Kindle Touch, Nook
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemurion View Post
I'm with you - my stepdaughter's in the same range with texts, as is her 20 year old brother. I either spell and punctuate reasonably correctly, or let voice recognition handle it.

The multi-tasking is impressive - but I just wish she would avoid some of the affectations in bad spelling. (I can somewhat understand the abbreviations though I don't like many of them - but things like "boi" for boy make me want to gag.) That and her habit of wanting to text rather than call when I've just told her I'm coming to pick her up. I've got a bluetooth, I can take her call; but her texts are going to have to wait until I stop driving.
*grin* good thing our kids don't read these forums or they'd be calling us old fogeys.
John Carroll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2011, 04:42 PM   #30
HarryT
eBook Enthusiast
HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HarryT's Avatar
 
Posts: 62,698
Karma: 40387231
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: PW2, iPad Retina Mini, iPhone 4, MS Surface Pro, Onyx T68, N7,
Sadly, I think that those of us who care about language in all its beauty are a dying breed. But perhaps every generation thinks that .
HarryT is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
contractions, english, writing

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Metadata to specify default language is English? kjk ePub 4 06-22-2010 04:05 PM
Hello from a Finn with an English-language book set in Solomon Islands TulagiHotel-HH Introduce Yourself 7 05-21-2010 01:28 PM
Changing from french language to english escalla Sony Reader 3 05-14-2009 12:57 PM
pdf, foreign language, notes function. is tat too hard? cavygal Which one should I buy? 1 10-08-2008 01:03 PM
Three or Four things in calibre needed. English language mandatory Dr. Drib Sony Reader 0 05-27-2008 10:35 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:09 AM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.