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Old 12-28-2010, 07:25 PM   #1
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Do they display page number?

Hi,

I'm looking to buy an ereader and I am trying to decide between Nook, Sony Touch Reader and Cybook Orizon. I am a college student from Europe and I'll have a lot of reading to do in .pdfs for uni. Since I don't plan to use my ereader only for fiction, I will need the option to see the number of the page I am reading in order to cite my sources correctly -- I heard Kindle doesn't have this feature.

I am trying to find out if the ereaders I mentioned have it?

Thank you for your time.

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Old 12-28-2010, 11:37 PM   #2
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I have been using the SONY PRS900 and PRS950. Those have a gray bar at the bottom of the screen that displays the page number. Clicking on it opens a scroll-bar that allows you to jump to a specific page. I believe the other SONY readers work in the same way... but for PDFs, I would recommend the larger screen of the 9x0 series.
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Old 12-28-2010, 11:52 PM   #3
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yes the nook does display page numbers
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Old 12-29-2010, 12:12 AM   #4
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For PDFs, you will get the actual page number. This is true on the Kindle's and the other devices.

For non-PDFs, e.g. AZW (MOBI) on the Kindle and ePubs on the others, you get a count of bytes into the file. The Kindle does this is 128 byte chunks of the uncompressed ebook, and Adobe Digital Editions (for ePub) does this essentially as 1024 byte chunks of the compressed ebook. So the ePub "pages" under ADE look like real pages (in length), but they are fake pages generated by a byte counting algorithm. The actual algorithm is complicated, each chapter starts a new page for example, but they are not real pages. The byte counts on the Kindle for AZW ebooks do not look like pages (because 128 bytes is too small), but it is a more reliable count of actual bytes.

If you are going to read lots of text-based PDFs, then the Kindle DX may be your best choice - because a big screen is much better for PDFs. On the KDX and on the K3, a PDF page is always shown "as is" and the zoom options are limited (which is more of an issue for the K3). On the others, you can either see the original page layout or the page can be "reflowed" to make the text bigger (but loosing the page layout). The page count is still accurate with reflow, and in fact the reflow is one page at a time.

Last edited by wallcraft; 12-29-2010 at 12:14 AM.
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Old 12-29-2010, 12:23 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by wallcraft View Post
For PDFs, you will get the actual page number. This is true on the Kindle's and the other devices.

For non-PDFs, e.g. AZW (MOBI) on the Kindle and ePubs on the others, you get a count of bytes into the file. The Kindle does this is 128 byte chunks of the uncompressed ebook, and Adobe Digital Editions (for ePub) does this essentially as 1024 byte chunks of the compressed ebook. So the ePub "pages" under ADE look like real pages (in length), but they are fake pages generated by a byte counting algorithm. The actual algorithm is complicated, each chapter starts a new page for example, but they are not real pages. The byte counts on the Kindle for AZW ebooks do not look like pages (because 128 bytes is too small), but it is a more reliable count of actual bytes.

If you are going to read lots of text-based PDFs, then the Kindle DX may be your best choice - because a big screen is much better for PDFs. On the KDX and on the K3, a PDF page is always shown "as is" and the zoom options are limited (which is more of an issue for the K3). On the others, you can either see the original page layout or the page can be "reflowed" to make the text bigger (but loosing the page layout). The page count is still accurate with reflow, and in fact the reflow is one page at a time.


on epub you get page numbers as well, the kindle as far as I know is the only one that uses that screwy louie cell system.
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Old 12-29-2010, 02:44 AM   #6
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on epub you get page numbers as well, the kindle as far as I know is the only one that uses that screwy louie cell system.
This is completely untrue. Both ADE (ePub) devices and the Kindle use the same principle - both count bytes in the file. ADE calls them "pages"; the Kindle calls them "locations", but the principle is identical.
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Old 12-29-2010, 07:56 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
... I'll have a lot of reading to do in .pdfs ...
I will need the option to see the number of the page I am reading in order to cite my sources correctly -- I heard Kindle doesn't have this feature.
...
You've heard incorrectly.

When reading PDF's, the Kindle K3 displays the page number. Since PDFs are page based this is easy to do and the page numbers are consistent regardless of reader device.

With true ebook formats, the text flows based on the display characteristics (font size, letter spacing, line spacing, ...) set by the reader device. Ereaders can't reference a page number in the ebook file as pages, per se, do not exist.

Some ebook readers attempt to reference the page number of the source print version. This generally results is a somewhat inaccurate page # display where several screens reference the same page and often a single screen will reference to adjacent pages. Citing the page # isn't too difficult, but citing the appropriate book version can be. Any reader that merely counts "screens" is useless for citing as the screen number will change depending on the device used for reading and the device's settings.

The Kindle's, and other Mobipocket format reader's, approach is to reference a "location" in the electronic file. These can be cited just like "pages". A particular location number is identical regardless of the particular ereader used or its display settings.

There's a good essay on this at: http://www.edukindle.com/2010/08/why...on-the-kindle/
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Old 12-29-2010, 10:12 AM   #8
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Some ebook readers attempt to reference the page number of the source print version.
This is news to me. What devices do that? ADE devices most certainly don't.

Quote:
The Kindle's, and other Mobipocket format reader's, approach is to reference a "location" in the electronic file. These can be cited just like "pages". A particular location number is identical regardless of the particular ereader used or its display settings.
It's not true to say "other Mobipocket format readers" (not "reader's", please - why did you put in an apostrophe?) do this. All Mobipocket implementation that I know of, with the exception of the Kindle, simply display a screen count.

Last edited by HarryT; 12-29-2010 at 10:18 AM.
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Old 12-29-2010, 10:31 AM   #9
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This is completely untrue. Both ADE (ePub) devices and the Kindle use the same principle - both count bytes in the file. ADE calls them "pages"; the Kindle calls them "locations", but the principle is identical.
I don't know, right now I'm looking at The Mask by Dean Koontz, an ePub ADE book on my nook color and it's says up in the right hand corner 2 of 186
etc.

it's not using a cell system. Its displaying as page numbers.
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Old 12-29-2010, 10:35 AM   #10
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I don't know, right now I'm looking at The Mask by Dean Koontz, an ePub ADE book on my nook color and it's says up in the right hand corner 2 of 186
etc.

it's not using a cell system. Its displaying as page numbers.
Your claim, however, was that it was an "attempt to reference the page number of the source print version" and that is completely false. An ADE "page number" is simply a count of 1024 characters in the (compressed) file. A Kindle location works in exactly the same way, except that it count 128 characters. Neither ADE page numbers nor Kindle locations have any connection whatsoever to page numbers in printed editions, hence my surprise at your statement that they did.
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Old 12-29-2010, 10:43 AM   #11
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Harry - He put in the apostrophe because he's using the possessive form - the readers possess the approach - although I think he should use the plural possessive: readers' because their are many Mobipocket format readers -
just saying - just teasing - your English is usually impeccable, I wish I could do as well

boswd - Harry is right, those page numbers are just as virtual and arbitrary as the Kindle's locations. Actually more so, because they are calculated based on the compressed file, not the original file.

Last edited by pholy; 12-29-2010 at 10:45 AM.
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Old 12-29-2010, 10:46 AM   #12
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Harry - He put in the apostrophe because he's using the possessive form - the readers possess the approach - although I think he should use the plural possessive: readers' because their are many Mobipocket format readers -
just saying - just teasing - your English is usually impeccable, I wish I could do as well
Doh - you're right. Didn't spot that. Thanks .
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Old 12-29-2010, 11:10 AM   #13
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Harry - He put in the apostrophe because he's using the possessive form - the readers possess the approach - although I think he should use the plural possessive: readers' because their are many Mobipocket format readers -
just saying - just teasing - your English is usually impeccable, I wish I could do as well

boswd - Harry is right, those page numbers are just as virtual and arbitrary as the Kindle's locations. Actually more so, because they are calculated based on the compressed file, not the original file.

But the OP asked if it is displayed as page numbers regardless of the behind the scenes compressions.

When reading a book on a kinlde is displayed as a location. When reading a book on the nook it is displayed as a page number. Now when can get into semantics about the compressions etc etc. the fact remains is how does it look when reading, despite the fact that is may have the same scheme, they appear different.

I took the OP's questions as what e readers dispaly the pages as page numbers and that is what the nook does, the kindle for example displays positions.

they may be the exact same thing behind the scenes scheme but they are displayed different. One as a page number one as a location.

that is how I took the OP.
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Old 12-29-2010, 11:15 AM   #14
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When reading a book on a kinlde is displays a location. When reading a book on the nook it is displayed as a page number. Now when can get into semantics about the compressions etc etc. the fact remaisn is how does it look when reading, despite the fact that is may have the same scheme, they appear different.

I took the OP's questions as what e readers dispaly the pages as page numbers and that is what the nook does, the kindle for example displays positions.

they may be the exact same thing behind the scenes scheme but they are displayed different. One as a page number one as a location.

that is how I took the OP.
I am in complete accord with you. The only point I was disagreeing about was the statement that ADE page numbers are based on the pagination of printed editions; that's not the case.

Having both ADE devices and a Kindle, my personal preference is for the Kindle's locations, due to their finer granularity. As you know, an ADE page will generally extend over several "screens" on a reader, so giving someone a page reference won't ensure that they're looking at the same text that you are. The finer-grained locations on the Kindle generally don't have that issue.
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Old 12-29-2010, 11:55 AM   #15
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I am in complete accord with you. The only point I was disagreeing about was the statement that ADE page numbers are based on the pagination of printed editions; that's not the case.

Having both ADE devices and a Kindle, my personal preference is for the Kindle's locations, due to their finer granularity. As you know, an ADE page will generally extend over several "screens" on a reader, so giving someone a page reference won't ensure that they're looking at the same text that you are. The finer-grained locations on the Kindle generally don't have that issue.
I hear ya, but I guess to each his own. When read my first book on my friends kindle, before I bought any ereader, I found the the location to be an odd distraction. I prefer the page number style of display, even if some it takes a couple of screen pages to complet a page.
though there are different factors such as text size that can reduce the number of screens per page.

I do find reading on the 7 inch nook color screen I'm finding it to change page numbers with less screen changes.

IDK, page numbers just seems more natural than "locations".
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