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Old 12-29-2010, 02:17 PM   #76
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Old 12-29-2010, 02:25 PM   #77
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you bring up some good points. Though I think David Pogues review of the original Nook was a bit over the top and very exaggerated at times. Barnes and noble did rush a product out before all of the kinks were ironed out. And as the old saying goes you don't get a second chance to make a first impression. another point i found disappointing about Pouges' review was unlike many other gadget reviewers, he left out that most of the bugs were firmware update fixable. Many, such as Cnet , mentioned this. And they did. By Feb. many of the bugs were fixed and by v1.3 in April, the Nook now could go against any ereader.
Well, that first impression issue was the problem. "That'll be fixed in a firmware update." isn't something that buyers want to hear, because you, as a consumer, don't always know there will be a firmware update. (If you bought a Microsoft Kin phone, and it doesn't have everything you ever wanted on it, you're basically SOL, to take one example.) You can't expect a product to be perfect out of the gate, but you should be able to expect fewer bugs than the original Nook had. And you also have the size, weight, and navigation issues, which a firmware update can't fix. I think the Nook Color redeems a lot of those first impressions, but moving away from e-Ink is probably going to cost them some support.

If Apple really wants to challenge Amazon in the reader realm, they might be able to do it, but they seem to be going in a different direction. That makes sense, since the iPad is a generalist device, but in the short term, I think it means Amazon will be alone at the top of the ereader heap for a while.
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Old 12-29-2010, 06:02 PM   #78
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but I do disagree with on some selling points, especially ePub. It's puts the company in a tough spot because naturally you want to sell ebooks out of your own store but there are alot of kindle owners that are shocked to learn that you can check out books from the library and many have said, at least the ones I know, if they only knew before hand they would have bought something else, like the nook or sony.
So actually I think they need to pump up this feature.
Maybe. Maybe not.
Yes, they are losing customers to the ADE horde because of library books.
But, let's face it, Kindle is first and foremost a book-selling machine.
The revenue from library-focused customers would be limited to the upfront hardware revenue rather than the ongoing revenue stream from book *buyers*. And one reason Kindle WiFi is so cheap is Amazon is willing to sell it at a minimal markup. (They probably are breaking even---at best---on the ones sold in B&M outlets.) If they were paying Adobe's DRM tax they might lose money or have to run a higher price.

One thing Amazon does *right* is that they *don't* try to capture every last customer. They have a target customer and they go after that customer with a (polite) vengeance. Other customers they carefully "neglect". In rare ocassions they have actually told people they are not welcome to shop with them, you know. (It's not personal. It's business. )

One of the dirty secrets of retailing (and Amazon is primarily a dry goods retailer at heart) is that some customers cost more to "satisfy" than they generate in revenue. Whenever possible, smart retailers steer those customers to their competitors. It's called cherry-picking. It's not something any executive will admit to in public but in private they are happy to see these "occasional" buyers go to somebody like Sony who is then *forced* to subsist almost exclusively on hardware profits and is thus unable to compete with Kindle's pricing.

Microsoft did it to Palm for years; Palm was so focused on maintaining their massive market share they designed their products to maintain the lowest possible price whereas MS designed PocketPCs to satisfy the needs of corporate users and they and their partners were quite happy with a smaller share of the market because they were making decent profits off the product line while Palm was bleeding to death.

(An aside: 80% of my commercial ebooks come from Webscriptions (Baen and Nightshade) and the rest from non-agency Kindle publishers. (I'm boycotting the Price Fix Five since last April and not missing them.) So I'm hardly their preferred Kindle customer. But I fully understand what they're doing and why and if I were an Amazon stockholder (alas, I'm not) I would be pleased with Bezos.)

If library ebook access is important to you then go with a reader that offers that feature. Or get an Android webpad and run the Overdrive app side-by-side with Kindle and FBReader/Coolreader/Aldiko/whatever. Amazon won't mind; they are actively pushing K4A onto Android hardware wherever they can. But the business model for Kindle is going to remain as is as long as it keeps on working.

This is one case where "doing what you always did" is going to continue as long as they like "getting what you always got".

They like being where they are, which is one reason why they brag.

Last edited by fjtorres; 12-29-2010 at 06:05 PM.
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Old 12-29-2010, 06:17 PM   #79
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Well now. Amazon is perfectly entitled to tell us or not tell us what its sales are. It would have an effect on the policies of the other e-book reader makers so keep them quiet does no harm. I am a journalist and anyone who believes press releases also believes in Welsh dragons. I now have two Kindle 3s and am astounded at the quality of the machine. Could it be improved? Sure. The indexing system leaves much to be desired or it totally awful depending on your point of view. But as a way of loading and reading books it is quite remarkably marvelous.
I bought Kindle 3 for Dummies hoping it would tell me how to index all the containers. No reply. I have read everything I could. The man who wrote Caliber -- cannot remember his name but he is a true genius -- thinks it so bad they only answer is to buy a Sony instead.
What I think we need is a swap club -- DRM ignored. And before the fingers are pointed I am a journalist and book writer --my wife says 22 -- and I would not allow any publisher to stick DRM on anything.
At the moment I have set up an enlarger stand with a digital camera and lights and am going to make my own lists. But perhaps there is an easier way.
Finally, I think the Kindle is a total wonder. I have seen it in development for 25 years -- that figure is correct -- and I cannot believe the excellent of the result. Just let me get the indexing straight.

Gareth Powell in Sydney where it looks as though it is going to be a very warm day.
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Old 12-29-2010, 08:36 PM   #80
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A fellow Clip owner. That deserves a big

BTW, a Clip or a Clip+?
Both, actually! I tend to use the original Clip more often, mostly because I've had it longer and it's easier to control by touch since I'm used to the location of the controls. But the Clip+ does have some nice features that the original doesn't, so I would recommend either one highly!
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Old 12-30-2010, 08:56 AM   #81
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Well, I got mine way before xmas and everyone I spoke to couldn't get hold of one for love nor money. Like you say though, be interesting to see just how many.
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Old 01-03-2011, 10:16 AM   #82
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All I know is that this year I got an Kindle3, gave my Kindle1 and Kindle2 to family members. I also got an iPad in April and now I have an Aunt and 2 nieces with iPads and a brother with a Kindle 3 and a sister with a MacbookPro. I bring all 3 (Macbook, Kindle and iPad) on visits and they all played with mine before they purchased theirs. I am constantly trying electronics in stores. Every weekend I'm at Bed Bath Beyond, Best Buy, Barns & Noble, Borders, Frys even Walmart and play with the E-readers, Laptops, computers, MP3 players and whatever they permit me to touch. I am the tester of my family.

I know, in my heart, that Amazon sold more Kindles this year than all the other readers combined.

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Old 01-03-2011, 12:12 PM   #83
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I know, in my heart, that Amazon sold more Kindles this year than all the other readers combined.
Of course they are. The only real question is whether they are grinding the competition into dust...or merely crushing the competition into gravel.
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Old 01-03-2011, 12:33 PM   #84
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Actually the bigger question is will Amazon continue to innovate in order to preserve its place in the US e-book market and what is Amazon doing to improve its place in the international market.

I could careless about todays success. I want to buy the best product for me on the market. Right now that is a Kindle. If the time comes that I am looking for a new e-reader, mine breaks or something new and cool comes out, and Amazon does not have the best product on the market then I will be buying something else.

Part of the issues I end up having with these types of topics is that it turns into a Amazon vs the world thing. I don't see the need for that and I think the overall tone is distracting. I know that I post in these topics and that does not always help things but I get tired of Amazon bashing or demands that Amazon change its business model.

I fail to see why people cannot be happy with what they have and enjoy discussing the pros and cons of different e-readers. Different folks have different needs in their e-reader and there are a ton of possibilities out there for folks.

I guess the hyper competitivness to "prove" one e-reader is better then the other is a bit weird to me. As is the desire to see one e-reader grind the others down. We are better off with many devices which push the others to innovate and we all end up with better devices.
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Old 01-03-2011, 12:42 PM   #85
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a bit weird to me. As is the desire to see one e-reader grind the others down. We are better off with many devices which push the others to innovate and we all end up with better devices.
I think that is the main reason of the aggression you see. People (maybe only me?) are scared that Amazon will win hands down and there will be no competition at all.
I am a passive observant in this topic but to be honest I am scared. I don't like Kindle. More over I really dislike it's hardware implementation. I like my Sony so much more that I am truly scared that Amazon is going to erase all the competition and I will have no choice
Unfortunately for me, and fortunately to Kindle users I believe Amazon's business model is almost perfect and Kindle is going to stamp out all others.
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Old 01-03-2011, 01:00 PM   #86
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I think that is the main reason of the aggression you see. People (maybe only me?) are scared that Amazon will win hands down and there will be no competition at all.
I am a passive observant in this topic but to be honest I am scared. I don't like Kindle. More over I really dislike it's hardware implementation. I like my Sony so much more that I am truly scared that Amazon is going to erase all the competition and I will have no choice
Unfortunately for me, and fortunately to Kindle users I believe Amazon's business model is almost perfect and Kindle is going to stamp out all others.
I would be shocked if one reader beats out all the others. I can see a situation like the iPod. There are competitors out there that are excellent even if the majority of folks, myself included, use the iPod because it is what we know. But we are a long away from that even coming to be.

The e-reader market is so new that there is plenty of room for growth and probably some new readers. My guess is that the first group out with a viable color non-LCD screen is going to surge forward really, really fast. By viable I mean with a reasonable page turn, battery life, and under $250.

It is frustrating to me that I feel like I have to defend why I like my e-reader and why Amazon is not the devil. I understand the comparison topics and threads. Plenty of good information, talking up the e-readers we love, and some fun back and forth, but the threads that take such hardline positions make me feel defensive.
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Old 01-03-2011, 01:04 PM   #87
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It is frustrating to me that I feel like I have to defend why I like my e-reader and why Amazon is not the devil
Amazon is not the devil. Not at all. Its business model IMO is brilliant.
See? The Business model not the reader itself.
In the ebook market, hardware is secondary, the ebooks are the most important and Amazon is the best in delivery methods and in variety of ebooks.
Amazon is good in what it is doing You don't have to defend it, it is obvious
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Old 01-03-2011, 01:15 PM   #88
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Amazon is not the devil. Not at all. Its business model IMO is brilliant.
See? The Business model not the reader itself.
In the ebook market, hardware is secondary, the ebooks are the most important and Amazon is the best in delivery methods and in variety of ebooks.
Amazon is good in what it is doing You don't have to defend it, it is obvious
hehehe

When I bought my Kindle it was between the Sony and the Kindle, they were the two out at the time that I knew of. Between the bookstore and the device, the Kindle won hands down.

I prefer the Kindle to the Sony but I don't like touchscreens and I really love having the 3G connectivity. I like my keyboard. Heck I actually like the rollar wheel and look of the K1. People tell me that I am strange (winks)
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Old 01-03-2011, 02:15 PM   #89
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If the time comes that I am looking for a new e-reader, mine breaks or something new and cool comes out, and Amazon does not have the best product on the market then I will be buying something else.
As long as you are willing to lose all your Kindle books, fine. But otherwise you are locked in to Amazon. Yeah, yeah, I know you can strip and convert, but are you the average consumer? I doubt it. Average consumer who doesn't know about formats and limitations is buying Kindle without realizing the implications down the line.


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I fail to see why people cannot be happy with what they have and enjoy discussing the pros and cons of different e-readers. Different folks have different needs in their e-reader and there are a ton of possibilities out there for folks.

I guess the hyper competitivness to "prove" one e-reader is better then the other is a bit weird to me. As is the desire to see one e-reader grind the others down. We are better off with many devices which push the others to innovate and we all end up with better devices.
True enough. But simply because Kindle is the market leader, customers often do not do enough research; there's another thread, for example, where someone bought a Kindle without realizing it couldn't be used to borrow library books and is now unsure what to do about it.

So it seems a service to tell people that there are limitations to the Kindle, and they are very real. Kindle owners too often pooh-pooh the limitations--there's a post in that aforementioned thread, for example, that says, basically, libraries have long waiting lists for popular books anyway, so just buy bestsellers from Amazon.

That's the sort of attitude that I as a non-Kindle owner find annoying. If I want an e-reader that can access library books, I don't want to be told that what I want is pointless.
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Old 01-03-2011, 02:48 PM   #90
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As long as you are willing to lose all your Kindle books, fine. But otherwise you are locked in to Amazon. Yeah, yeah, I know you can strip and convert, but are you the average consumer? I doubt it. Average consumer who doesn't know about formats and limitations is buying Kindle without realizing the implications down the line.




True enough. But simply because Kindle is the market leader, customers often do not do enough research; there's another thread, for example, where someone bought a Kindle without realizing it couldn't be used to borrow library books and is now unsure what to do about it.

So it seems a service to tell people that there are limitations to the Kindle, and they are very real. Kindle owners too often pooh-pooh the limitations--there's a post in that aforementioned thread, for example, that says, basically, libraries have long waiting lists for popular books anyway, so just buy bestsellers from Amazon.

That's the sort of attitude that I as a non-Kindle owner find annoying. If I want an e-reader that can access library books, I don't want to be told that what I want is pointless.
I know I can remove the DRM and move the books with me. I am comfortable doing that because I believe that it is legal for me to strip the DRM as long as it is for individual use. I know that I do not pirate material or buy pirated material so I am ok with it. I have not done it yet because I don't need to.

I do think that the average consumer will search the internet if they were to hear that Amazon was going down and learn how to strip and convert books with DRM. If they have a large enough library they will do this because they don't want to lose their investment. Otherwise they might be folks who buy Amazon only because they are afraid of losing their investment. Either way, they have options available to them if they want to look.

There are folks showing up with Kindles asking about library books and the like because they bought a Kindle not knowing about the format differences. Folks are telling them to return the Kindle and get a Nook or Sony, others have explained the strip DRM/conversion process is available and pointed them in the right direction, still others are debating the legality of stripping and converting DRM.

I agree that people should be matched with devices that best suit them. This is why I have suggested Nooks and Sonys when people have said that want something for the library or a touchscreen. The strange thing is that I rarely see people outside of the Kindle users suggest a Kindle even when it is a good fit.

That probably is because non-Kindle folks are concerned about Kindle dominating the market and want to prevent that from happening. It just feels a bit like some of the non-Kindle users feel that Amazon and Kindle are the evil empire and people should be discouraged from using Amazon at all costs. That bothers me a great deal.

Or maybe I am finally getting why Apple lovers are a bit defensive.
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