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Old 01-01-2011, 12:37 AM   #31
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Ok, that screen is really way too large... If you only have a small monitor, think netbook size, you have a huge problem. The minimum size (that is, the size where you won't get any scrollbars) is 1024x768...

The longer I look at it, the more I hate it...
I just loaded 0.7.35 on my netbook and yes, the edit metadata window does hang below the bottom of the screen. So what? When you need to see below the bottom part of the window, use the scroll bar on the right. Big deal. Using a small screen, such as what netbooks use, involves some compromise. Either you have to do some scrolling or you have to reduce the image size. Deal with it or trade your netbook in on a larger laptop. Methinks you just wanted something else to carp about.
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Old 01-01-2011, 07:58 AM   #32
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I have to agree with @Lady Fitzgerald. No doubt Kovid uses a normal, standard sized monitor (1024x768) or larger as a workstation to create Calibre and work on it. If Calibre were to be shrunk down to netbook size, it would cheat the rest of us (no doubt the majority) by either using inadequate screen real estate, tiny fonts, or leaving out features on the screen layout. This is one of the main reasons I dislike little computers and screens for doing work. They are fine for some 'net surfing, but are inadequate to display many web page screens without annoying zooming or scrolling, and are additionally hindered by inadequate keyboards. Yes, I know I can't carry my desktop computer around with me, but my laptop does have an adequate screen for 1024x768 displays with room left over.

I don't think it's fair to ask everyone to cater to the micro screen fans. Most of these tiny screens are driven by graphics chips that can reduce the image size (screen resolution) in the settings window which is what you should be doing. If you change screen resolution and then can't see the images, then you probably should reconsider your choice of workstations. If you don't like Calibre, I'm sure you can get a refund for what you paid for it. No offense, but my vote is to keep it in the real world.
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Old 01-01-2011, 08:16 AM   #33
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I never would have thought that this dialog box would be quite so polarizing.

I tend to fall on the 'don't like it' side, primarily because it is too busy. It is difficult to get aesthetic spacing (for me, tight) with all the panels. I use the edit field parts (standard and custom) far more often than I use cover or format editing, and would prefer to have both standard and custom metadata on the same page.

I have been considering redoing it to use three tabs (fields, cover, formats), then submitting to Kovid to see what he thinks. I may still...
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Old 01-01-2011, 08:37 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by mldavis2 View Post
I have to agree with @Lady Fitzgerald. No doubt Kovid uses a normal, standard sized monitor (1024x768) or larger as a workstation to create Calibre and work on it. If Calibre were to be shrunk down to netbook size, it would cheat the rest of us (no doubt the majority) by either using inadequate screen real estate, tiny fonts, or leaving out features on the screen layout. This is one of the main reasons I dislike little computers and screens for doing work. They are fine for some 'net surfing, but are inadequate to display many web page screens without annoying zooming or scrolling, and are additionally hindered by inadequate keyboards. Yes, I know I can't carry my desktop computer around with me, but my laptop does have an adequate screen for 1024x768 displays with room left over.

I don't think it's fair to ask everyone to cater to the micro screen fans. Most of these tiny screens are driven by graphics chips that can reduce the image size (screen resolution) in the settings window which is what you should be doing. If you change screen resolution and then can't see the images, then you probably should reconsider your choice of workstations. If you don't like Calibre, I'm sure you can get a refund for what you paid for it. No offense, but my vote is to keep it in the real world.
I agree about what you had to say about netbooks. I love mine for when I'm on the road. It's great for checking and sending email and most web surfing, which is what it was designed for, and is very portable (fits in my carryon with no trouble). When I had a period of time when I didn't have an internet connection at home, I used to take a netbook to the library to use the the WiFi there. I had a lot of students ask me about it, thinking it would be handy for school work. I advised them they would be better off with a laptop because of the slower speed and smaqller keyboard and screen of the netbook. Also, most laptops have far more battery life than most netbooks.
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Old 01-01-2011, 08:45 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by chaley View Post
I never would have thought that this dialog box would be quite so polarizing.

I tend to fall on the 'don't like it' side, primarily because it is too busy. It is difficult to get aesthetic spacing (for me, tight) with all the panels. I use the edit field parts (standard and custom) far more often than I use cover or format editing, and would prefer to have both standard and custom metadata on the same page.

I have been considering redoing it to use three tabs (fields, cover, formats), then submitting to Kovid to see what he thinks. I may still...
If you do play with the Metadata editing window, mayhap you could find room for custom and default columns on one tab (default on one side and custom on the other and comments at the bottom?). I rarely use the cover and format editor. Those two would fit on one tab (especially if the the entries weren't so spread out) and the format and cover fields would fit on a second tab. I would hate to see three tabs.
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Old 01-01-2011, 11:05 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaley View Post
I never would have thought that this dialog box would be quite so polarizing.

I tend to fall on the 'don't like it' side, primarily because it is too busy. It is difficult to get aesthetic spacing (for me, tight) with all the panels. I use the edit field parts (standard and custom) far more often than I use cover or format editing, and would prefer to have both standard and custom metadata on the same page.

I have been considering redoing it to use three tabs (fields, cover, formats), then submitting to Kovid to see what he thinks. I may still...
If you do 3 tab it
Some thoughts

Keep the book title Visible (My memory is 3uS long),
Remember what tab was used last and re-open on that tab. (I drag and drop Covers when not Calibre downloadable) Same goes uasage for additional formats. D+D

Or have a "small screen" version 'Tweak' ( use 2+ monitors at my desk)
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Old 01-01-2011, 11:42 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by theducks View Post
If you do 3 tab it
Some thoughts

Keep the book title Visible (My memory is 3uS long),
Remember what tab was used last and re-open on that tab. (I drag and drop Covers when not Calibre downloadable) Same goes uasage for additional formats. D+D

Or have a "small screen" version 'Tweak' ( use 2+ monitors at my desk)
Thanks for the suggestions.

Instead of remembering the tab, I will have a drag event automatically switch to the second tab (my experiment is using Lady F's 2-tab suggestion). I am also putting the book title into the dialog title bar.

As for a 'small screen' tweak, this isn't something I am doing because of my screen is small (it isn't). I just don't care for large, complex dialogs. My eyes and brain get lost in the details. I also see misalignments and spacing problems, and they bother me. Also, I am sure that Kovid won't want to support two versions of such a complex dialog. I know that I don't. He will choose between various options, and that will be it.
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Old 01-01-2011, 12:03 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by chaley View Post
Thanks for the suggestions.

Instead of remembering the tab, I will have a drag event automatically switch to the second tab (my experiment is using Lady F's 2-tab suggestion). I am also putting the book title into the dialog title bar.
Just so I undersand . Cover and formats on second tab?
D+D allowed me to drop a JPG into the formats section (I intended to drop as a cover, being Klutz). If I drop a Image (outside a ZIP/Rar... , will it be treated as a 'Cover'?

[QUOTE}
As for a 'small screen' tweak, this isn't something I am doing because of my screen is small (it isn't). I just don't care for large, complex dialogs. My eyes and brain get lost in the details. I also see misalignments and spacing problems, and they bother me. Also, I am sure that Kovid won't want to support two versions of such a complex dialog. I know that I don't. He will choose between various options, and that will be it.[/QUOTE]

Understand
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Old 01-01-2011, 12:38 PM   #39
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Just so I undersand . Cover and formats on second tab?
D+D allowed me to drop a JPG into the formats section (I intended to drop as a cover, being Klutz). If I drop a Image (outside a ZIP/Rar... , will it be treated as a 'Cover'?
It will do what it does today. As far as I can tell, cover accepts images and formats accepts almost anything else.

I have attached some screenshots of my experiment. I expect that people will not like the placement of the comments (on the second tab), but that is the best place to put them from a real estate standpoint, and also from personal preference.

FWIW: no one should assume that these changes will be be put into calibre. It is actually rather unlikely that Kovid will accept them. I am a rather atypical user, and optimizing for me might not make much sense.

FWIW**2: the screenshots were done in my test library, which is why there are so many strange custom fields.
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Old 01-01-2011, 12:48 PM   #40
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@chaley: I like your 2-tab layout. +1
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Old 01-01-2011, 02:41 PM   #41
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@chaley: I like your 2-tab layout. +1


It appears the comments field appears on both tabs.
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Old 01-01-2011, 02:45 PM   #42
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It appears the comments field appears on both tabs.
The one on the first tab is a custom comment column, which is why it is there with the other custom data. My guess is that such columns are very rare.
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Old 01-01-2011, 03:07 PM   #43
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The problem with that layout is, imagine you are a common calibre users who has 0, 1 or 2 custom columns, that would mean all the space on the right is wasted and you have to unnecessarily switch tabs to edit the cover/comments/formats.

The default layout of that dialog will always make it most convenient to edit the basic metadata. I may consider making the layout dynamic to accommodate people with small screens/lots of custom columns, but that's going to be rather a lot of work.
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Old 01-01-2011, 03:32 PM   #44
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The one on the first tab is a custom comment column, which is why it is there with the other custom data. My guess is that such columns are very rare.
Can't speak for others of course, but yeah, I guess a custom comment column would be rare. How would you use such a thing (I'm not being flip; I'm really curious)?

Just to give you an idea of my workflow (this is not to say everyone does this; I'm probably the only one)... I scan a book into a pdf (I have too many books and not enough remaining lifespan to bother with OCR and the accompanying editing) and give it a filename that includes Author, Title, Series (if needed), Sub-Series (if needed), Series # (if needed), and ISBN. After saving the freshly scanned book to a temp folder on my desktop, I maximize calibre (until my scanning project is completed, assuming I live that long, I run calibre 24/7 along with my computer) and open the Add Books window (it's already set to look in the temp folder, which is why I save to it; when I'm scanning several books at a time, I keep both the temp folder and the folder where I stash books I've already put into calibre open) and double click on the book I've just scanned. I then open the Edit Metadata window, copy and paste the ISBN to the appropriate field (I know, there is a way to get calibre to do that automatically but I couldn't make any sense of it and it takes me only two seconds to copy and paste it), then hit the Fetch Metadata button. I then edit the metadata as needed, fill in any of my custom columns (Sub-Series, On JBL, and Unread), and save it all. I also glance at the comments and fix any glaring errors before saving.

For me (note that I said "for me"), having the default and custom column fields and the comments window all on the same window would be most convenient.

Last edited by Lady Fitzgerald; 01-01-2011 at 03:37 PM.
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Old 01-01-2011, 03:34 PM   #45
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The default layout of that dialog will always make it most convenient to edit the basic metadata. I may consider making the layout dynamic to accommodate people with small screens/lots of custom columns, but that's going to be rather a lot of work.
Just, pretty please, leave the "swap title and author with one click" button there ;-).
This is why I started this thread. To thank you for this small, but very nice improvement. (and, of course very large number of other small improvements I see being implemented at ever-increasing rate )
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