Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book Readers > Amazon Kindle

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-14-2010, 08:34 PM   #16
FF2
Wizard
FF2 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FF2 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FF2 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FF2 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FF2 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FF2 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FF2 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FF2 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FF2 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FF2 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FF2 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,111
Karma: 1025784
Join Date: Oct 2010
Device: WiFi Kindle3
The simple reason some state is the loss of book sales if people can borrow books for free from the library. Countered by those who suggest, if folks want free loaners from the library they will not be buying a kndle anyway. And then the more contrary types - most kindle buyers do not realize they cannot borrow library books and that Amazon has suckered them in. Pick your version of reality.
FF2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2010, 12:12 AM   #17
speedlever
Fanatic
speedlever can fool all of the people all of the time.speedlever can fool all of the people all of the time.speedlever can fool all of the people all of the time.speedlever can fool all of the people all of the time.speedlever can fool all of the people all of the time.speedlever can fool all of the people all of the time.speedlever can fool all of the people all of the time.speedlever can fool all of the people all of the time.speedlever can fool all of the people all of the time.speedlever can fool all of the people all of the time.speedlever can fool all of the people all of the time.
 
Posts: 534
Karma: 138200
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: NC, USA
Device: Voyage, PW1,Kindle 3 (wifi), iPad
My version of reality was revealed when I did some homework before jumping into the EBR world. I like many things about the Nook, including the native ability to read library books.

From a device standpoint, I much preferred the Kindle but bemoaned the lack of native epub capability. So I investigated how to read library books on the Kindle and am comfortable with the process to do so. I don't anticipate having any problems reading library books on the K3.
speedlever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2010, 01:19 AM   #18
tomsem
Wizard
tomsem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tomsem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tomsem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tomsem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tomsem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tomsem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tomsem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tomsem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tomsem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tomsem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tomsem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 2,447
Karma: 2519673
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: USA
Device: iPod Touch, Xoom, Kindle PW, iPad3, Fire HD2
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyR View Post
Because they want people to buy books from them. Not borrow library books.
I think it is more complex than that. After all, all of the 'powered by Adobe Digital Editions' devices allow this, and they want/need to sell books from their respective storefronts also. Why don't their shareholders complain? Why don't they disable the feature?

On the contrary, it is a selling point, and a reason to get one of those instead of a Kindle. If you have a Nook, perhaps you only read stuff from the library, but if you do make a purchase, it is much more likely to result in a purchase from B&N than anywhere else (even though these devices are less locked in than Kindle).

Perhaps publishers are reluctant to work with Amazon by agreeing to make their titles available for borrowing in Kindle format, lest Amazon get even more leverage. Or perhaps Amazon has other priorities, given their large market share. Or maybe it is being worked on as we discuss it here.
tomsem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2010, 02:05 AM   #19
Barty
Wizard
Barty ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barty ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barty ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barty ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barty ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barty ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barty ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barty ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barty ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barty ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barty ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,524
Karma: 3077889
Join Date: Sep 2010
Device: Kindle 3, PW2, iPad 3
The they-want-you-to-buy-their-book argument doesn't quite hold, because so do BN and Borders and their readers support library books. There have always been libraries, and that hasn't stopped people from buying books.

You can make a good business case for supporting library books. It would remove the last advantage the other readers have. It would nudge the fence sitters. More people will be enticed to buy your reader, thinking they will get to read books for free, even if they never get around to doing it. "oh wow, I can read this from my library. I love my kindle!! Wait, what, I am patron 10 out of 10 waiting? Shoot, I'll just buy it from Amazon". Ka ching!

Re stripping drm from library books, Not only is it illegal, I think there you're getting into an ethically indefensible position.

1. If you want to read library books, ideally you should support the ereader that makes this possible, which means not buying the kindle. It's like if you want to pay less tax, vote for the guy who lowers your tax, not the other guy then find some way to get around paying the taxman.

2. The more people do this, the more likely the publishers will want to stop selling ebooks to libraries altogether, or to come up with ever more cumbersome DRM schemes, and everyone ends up worse off. It's like when doctors overprescribe antibiotics. sure the patients get better and get out of their hair, but everyone becomes worse off as the chances of bacteria becoming resistant increase.

3. What are the chances that you will always respect the lending period and not be tempted to keep the book beyond that? People say as long as "I don't keep it past 21 days or whatever, I don't see the problem" which sounds a bit like as long as I don't inhale, or as long as I don't get behind the wheels, etc.

Which is not to say that it is BAD. In the grand scheme of things, it isn't much. It is just indefensible,

Last edited by Barty; 12-15-2010 at 02:08 AM.
Barty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2010, 07:47 AM   #20
speedlever
Fanatic
speedlever can fool all of the people all of the time.speedlever can fool all of the people all of the time.speedlever can fool all of the people all of the time.speedlever can fool all of the people all of the time.speedlever can fool all of the people all of the time.speedlever can fool all of the people all of the time.speedlever can fool all of the people all of the time.speedlever can fool all of the people all of the time.speedlever can fool all of the people all of the time.speedlever can fool all of the people all of the time.speedlever can fool all of the people all of the time.
 
Posts: 534
Karma: 138200
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: NC, USA
Device: Voyage, PW1,Kindle 3 (wifi), iPad
Not to make a defense of deDRM, but in another thread here, there is enough information (or disinformation, depending on your POV) to muddy the legal and ethical waters about this process.

I personally don't see the problem of reading the book of my choice wearing the glasses of my choice. I respect that others may differ in that regard.
speedlever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2010, 03:23 PM   #21
curstpriest
Confused
curstpriest shares his or her toyscurstpriest shares his or her toyscurstpriest shares his or her toyscurstpriest shares his or her toyscurstpriest shares his or her toyscurstpriest shares his or her toyscurstpriest shares his or her toyscurstpriest shares his or her toyscurstpriest shares his or her toyscurstpriest shares his or her toyscurstpriest shares his or her toys
 
curstpriest's Avatar
 
Posts: 402
Karma: 5538
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Bay Area
Device: Kindle DXG
I don't think that people stealing from libraries is a big problem. One could easily find any title on a forum or Usenet in a heartbeat and have it not only without DRM but also retrieve it instantly without the library hold times.

Using DRM on library books makes sense only because it enforces the lending period, if there was another way to enforce this, I would be against any encryption scheme. You can justify it any way you want, "I'm going to read it on my reader of choice, so I'll remove the drm." This is not really a good argument, and similar to the "I'll just download it illegally and keep it forever, because I never intended on buying it anyways, so no harm no foul the author loses no money for my use of this material."

I still believe the best solution would be for Amazon to release a library lending app for overdrive, or simply add EPUB support that supports ADE. They most likely will never do this, so most of us will just have to continue to follow our broken moral compasses.

There is another issue altogether, and it's that some authors set book prices for ebooks prohibitively high. I cannot see some people ever buying them at these prices. For example, you can purchase 1980 edition mass market paperback for 5$ (2-3$ used), or ebook for 17$ - let's be serious here, that's strong incentive to just not buy the book, get it at the library, or obtain it by other means.

I don't know why some authors do this, but why mark up a 30 year old book over 3x the price of a paperback for a digital edition? Are they anticipating loss due to piracy? IMHO they are encouraging piracy and prohibiting sales.
curstpriest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2010, 08:19 PM   #22
SteveEisenberg
Wizard
SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,730
Karma: 12261824
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia USA
Device: Kindle Keyboard 3G
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barty View Post
2. The more people do this, the more likely the publishers will want to stop selling ebooks to libraries altogether, or to come up with ever more cumbersome DRM schemes, and everyone ends up worse off.
Since when do publishers sell ebooks to libraries?

I do know that they lease a small number of titles of current books. But the model of the hardcover book, where a library can purchase it outright and then lend it out one patron at a time to an unlimited number of patrons does not exist with eBooks.

I still read more library books than eBooks, partly because of a tendency to get interested in a subject and then look for the best-reviewed relevant non-fiction books. Hard copy books are great for this because libraries engage in collection building where they get the best books on a given subject and keep them in their collection for decades. eBooks as presently constituted are a distraction from the traditional value of libraries, and you certainly are not doing your library a favor when you take one out.

See this article with the over-provocative title "Why are you for killing libraries:

http://www.librarything.com/blogs/th...ing-libraries/

Libraries are traditionally democratizing institutions, and I like this. The government should not be subsidizing a form of reading which lower income people are unlikely to be able to take advantage of.

By the way, this post is not mean as some kind of sly defense of breaking encryption. Only as a defense of traditional librarianship.

Last edited by SteveEisenberg; 12-17-2010 at 09:31 PM.
SteveEisenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2010, 10:50 PM   #23
r0bin
Junior Member
r0bin began at the beginning.
 
Posts: 2
Karma: 10
Join Date: Dec 2010
Device: eco reader
JeremyR
As a librarian, I can tell you that libraries pay royalties to the author for each time a book is borrowed; just like radio stations pay each time a track is put to air ; and most authors love having their books in libraries because it means they get some exposure they might not otherwise. Library borrowers will borrow a book by an author they don't know, enjoy it, and then maybe become a fan and start buying them or giving them as gifts. If they have to risk spending their own money on an unknown most people don't. Hope that sheds some light on how libraries help authors
r0bin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2010, 06:09 AM   #24
abookreader
Wizard
abookreader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.abookreader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.abookreader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.abookreader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.abookreader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.abookreader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.abookreader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.abookreader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.abookreader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.abookreader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.abookreader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
abookreader's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,516
Karma: 2567610
Join Date: Oct 2009
Device: Kindles - Keyboard, Fire, 2-US, iPhone, iPAD
@r0bin

In the United States libraries authors./publishers do not receive royalties for library check-outs. Libraries simply buy their books and then lend them out.

This is one reason two of the major publishers (MacMillan/Simon and Schuster) do not allow their titles to be obtained by Overdrive. There is no revenue other than the original purchase.
abookreader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2010, 09:38 AM   #25
SteveEisenberg
Wizard
SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.SteveEisenberg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,730
Karma: 12261824
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia USA
Device: Kindle Keyboard 3G
Welcome R0bin!

After reading what abookreader wrote, I did a web search in hopes of being able to say that you are somehow both correct about the royalties. The closest I found to vindicate your statement about royalties is that, per their web site, McNaughton's model, many years ago, was to charge for each lending event. But I gather this kind of lease, if still offered, is not popular today.

Libraries help authors in other ways. For one thing, they purchase books. Larger libraries purchase less popular books not widely sold in stores. I have read hundreds of library books that I would never have purchased.

Last edited by SteveEisenberg; 12-18-2010 at 09:40 AM.
SteveEisenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2010, 10:23 AM   #26
abookreader
Wizard
abookreader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.abookreader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.abookreader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.abookreader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.abookreader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.abookreader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.abookreader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.abookreader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.abookreader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.abookreader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.abookreader ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
abookreader's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,516
Karma: 2567610
Join Date: Oct 2009
Device: Kindles - Keyboard, Fire, 2-US, iPhone, iPAD
@Steve - there are places such as the UK where authors receive royalty payments when their books are distributed via Library Loan. In the UK they are known as the Public Lending Rights payments.

Such as in this article

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010...t-payments-cut

Libraries in the US have no such program. Libraries buy their books and authors receive their royalty from that sale, but nothing further in regards to each time the book is then loaned.
abookreader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2010, 02:39 AM   #27
r0bin
Junior Member
r0bin began at the beginning.
 
Posts: 2
Karma: 10
Join Date: Dec 2010
Device: eco reader
@steve. In Australia libraries also have a Public Lending Rights Scheme http://www.arts.gov.au/books/lending..._for_claimants, similar to that in the UK
r0bin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
kindle, library, overdrive

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Borrowing eBooks From More than 1 Library chazcop General Discussions 2 10-17-2010 11:55 PM
Change in reading habits? Kumabjorn General Discussions 1 07-18-2010 05:21 AM
Borrowing ebooks from Public Library diokdin Astak EZReader 33 12-09-2009 12:31 AM
Changed your reading habits? sassanik Reading Recommendations 39 03-08-2009 10:58 AM
How do you organize your reading habits? Colin Dunstan Lounge 2 11-15-2005 06:50 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:43 AM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.