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Old 12-06-2010, 07:43 PM   #1
danrodney
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Widows and Orphans

In Liz Castro's book she says Adobe Digital Editions and the nook support CSS widows and orphans. I've been testing it out and can't seem to get them to work. Am I doing something wrong or do they not support it?

Here's my CSS:
Code:
html, body, p {
	widows: 2 !important;
	orphans: 2 !important;
}
I added the !important in just to see if that helped but it didn't.

Just to be clear, I want to prevent the last two words in a paragraph from breaking. I don't want one word to be all by itself on a line.

In case you want to see an example .epub I've attached one below. Please note it's a test file so there may be other things I haven't cleaned up from InDesign's ePub export. But I don't think they should affect things. Just didn't want you to think this is finished quality

Thanks in advanced for any help.
Dan
Attached Files
File Type: epub modern.epub (102.5 KB, 92 views)
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Old 12-06-2010, 08:21 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danrodney View Post
Just to be clear, I want to prevent the last two words in a paragraph from breaking. I don't want one word to be all by itself on a line.
These refer to the number of lines that can hang at the start or end of a page (a screen's worth of text). So I think you may want 1 rather than 2, and 1 is probably the default. Most of the posts I have seen are on turning them off (set to 0) and this seems to work.
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Old 12-06-2010, 08:32 PM   #3
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If I am not mistaken, I think 2 is the default for widows and orphans.

In ADE, widows and orphans do work. I set them to 0.
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Old 12-06-2010, 08:40 PM   #4
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If I am not mistaken, I think 2 is the default for widows and orphans
Yes, 2 is what HTML Dog lists as the default.
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Old 12-06-2010, 09:01 PM   #5
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There are two different meanings of "orphan":

* A paragraph-opening line that appears by itself at the bottom of a page/column.
* A word, part of a word, or very short line that appears by itself at the end of a paragraph. Orphans result in too much white space between paragraphs or at the bottom of a page.

You are wanting to control the second meaning (words in a line) but it looks like the css orphan property controls the first meaning (lines of a paragraph at the bottom of the page). I don't know if there is a css property for minimum words in a line.

eP
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Old 12-07-2010, 08:30 AM   #6
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You can control the latter by using no-break spans and non-breaking spaces (subject to the H&J algorithm used) on the last two words in all paragraphs.

William
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Old 12-07-2010, 11:59 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elemenoP View Post
There are two different meanings of "orphan":

* A paragraph-opening line that appears by itself at the bottom of a page/column.
* A word, part of a word, or very short line that appears by itself at the end of a paragraph. Orphans result in too much white space between paragraphs or at the bottom of a page.

You are wanting to control the second meaning (words in a line) but it looks like the css orphan property controls the first meaning (lines of a paragraph at the bottom of the page). I don't know if there is a css property for minimum words in a line.

eP
I've never come across your second use of the word "orphan" before. It's always meant the first definition to me.
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Old 12-07-2010, 01:16 PM   #8
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That's from the Chicago Manual of Style (c&p from Wikipedia). What do you call a too-short last line in a paragraph?

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Old 12-07-2010, 02:03 PM   #9
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It's honestly never crossed my mind that it had a name . To tell you the truth I don't see any particular issue with a paragraph ending in a line containing a single word.

Last edited by HarryT; 12-07-2010 at 02:05 PM.
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Old 12-07-2010, 02:39 PM   #10
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well in pbook publishing it's "not allowed." Another old typesetting rule.

When I first started reading on my Sony, I was surprised to see that it adjusted pages for widows and orphans. I could see other people thinking "how come some pages are longer than others?" And to see that people like to adjust their own widow and orphan settings to 0 bears this out.

eP
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Old 12-08-2010, 02:08 PM   #11
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Thanks for clarifying

Now that I read more about them on HTML Dog, I realize I thought orphans did something different. I thought they were controlling the number of words on a line, not the number of lines on a "page." To me an orphan is a word on it's own line. I guess I'll have to look into another option. Too bad CSS doesn't have a specific setting to handle them

Like elemenoP said, orphans are not allowed in traditional typesetting. It's a sign of bad typography, unless columns are very narrow.

Thanks again,
Dan
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