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View Poll Results: Which eBook reader should I get?
Sony PRS-650 53 42.06%
Nook 10 7.94%
Kobo 11 8.73%
Kindle 3 46 36.51%
Other (Please post and let me know which eBook reader) 6 4.76%
Voters: 126. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-07-2010, 01:44 AM   #76
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No, he's not, and the details of why and the facts have been repeated many times in many threads here.

Similarly, you said:
"if you do want to be able to read free eBook via your local library, a Kindle is not a good fit. "
That's utterly and completely wrong for the many of us who read library epub books and find the Kindle to be a perfect fit.

Now, MIGHT the Kindle not be a good fit, depending on one's particular preferences and situation? Sure. But that's a very different thing to say, and it would be true, for one reason or another, for every reader, in fact every consumer item on the planet.
if you are reading DRM protected epubs from your library (like most are) then you are stripping DRM to read them on the Kindle. In most cases a Kindle and library ebooks do not mix.
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Old 12-07-2010, 07:40 AM   #77
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Some people don't want to strip DRM for one reason or another. Others feel they have a libertarian imperative TO strip it whether it were needed or not. Others could not care one way or the other. I don't think you have any justification for the "most cases." "Some cases" is a given. Saying "Most," just as saying that the NookColor is superior, is wrongly foisting your personal opinion and preferences as is if it were some sort of objective fact.

(Having played with the NookColor this week, I can say with certainly, that _I_ found it to be thoroughly inferior to the Kindle for MY needs in several key areas. Not the least of which was that several of the books that the B&N store had loaded to demo generated an error message when I tried to open them and the store rep had to work to get it to work at all. Maybe after a few firmware updates and price drops. Oh...but then it'll still have that awful backlit glaring LCD screen, extra weight and no easy access to buying books in the SUPERIOR Amazon store.)

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Last edited by ApK; 12-07-2010 at 08:23 AM.
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Old 12-07-2010, 09:02 AM   #78
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Some people don't want to strip DRM for one reason or another. Others feel they have a libertarian imperative TO strip it whether it were needed or not. Others could not care one way or the other. I don't think you have any justification for the "most cases." "Some cases" is a given. Saying "Most," just as saying that the NookColor is superior, is wrongly foisting your personal opinion and preferences as is if it were some sort of objective fact.

(Having played with the NookColor this week, I can say with certainly, that _I_ found it to be thoroughly inferior to the Kindle for MY needs in several key areas. Not the least of which was that several of the books that the B&N store had loaded to demo generated an error message when I tried to open them and the store rep had to work to get it to work at all. Maybe after a few firmware updates and price drops. Oh...but then it'll still have that awful backlit glaring LCD screen, extra weight and no easy access to buying books in the SUPERIOR Amazon store.)

ApK
I was in Target over the weekend, the Kindle display model was acting all wonky and had black lines on the screen, I should be like you and base my judgment on the device soley on that display model.

I think you are totally missing the point to a certain degree, yes it can be possible to put library books on the Kindle, but yes it's also true that you can actually run an Android OS on an iPhone as well.

the point is the Kindle does not natively support ePub and Yes you DO have to strip DRM while the rest of us don't have to go through that. And also you speak of it as if it's second nature to everyone to strip DRM. It's not, alot of people just don't know how to do it nor whether or not they SHOULD do it. I enjoy home audio and video for a hobby. I can get a home theater up and running likes it's second nature, does that mean it's second nature for everyone else?

Simple question can you easily ( no extra steps), legally and ethically download books from the library on to a Kindle? The answer is simply no you can not.

As far as the Amazon's superior bookstore? LOL it's time to update your information, Amazon no longer has this huge advantage in selection and price anymore, in fact not for quite a few months now. Did they a year or two years ago? sure they did. But BN caught up in a HUGE way and now that the Publishers are pretty much driving the prices on ebooks (thanks Apple) Amazon's price advantage has whittled away as well.

You see us who own a Nook, Kobo, a Sony etc. we can shop freely where we want, when we want at a pluthera of bookstores. Yes you guys have mobi (does anyone even use that anymore?) You Kindle owner have to sneak behind Big Daddy's back and do some things that just may not be the most ethical tatics to get other books.

My question is if you live in the US why even buy a Kindle anymore, nothing adventagous, in fact its more of a ball and chain.

Last edited by boswd; 12-07-2010 at 09:07 AM.
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Old 12-07-2010, 09:22 AM   #79
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I was in Target over the weekend, the Kindle display model was acting all wonky and had black lines on the screen, I should be like you and base my judgment on the device soley on that display model.
The display in Target is a non-working model, genius. I'm just teasing...The point of all the talk of superiority/inferiority was just to call out that it's important for people to consider their own needs, not just to take some strangers word that X is good, Y is bad, no matter how much bluster and false authority they keep trying to put behind the claim. Even if that person is right for themself, that doesn't make them right period. The same point, I hope, as your closing line in your last post.

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Simple question can you easily (no extra steps), legally and ethically download books from the library on to a Kindle? The answer is simply no you can not.
Oh yes. It is so easy now that I'm afraid to talk about it in fear that the DRM companies will change something to make it harder. It's scary how simple it is, and, if you're using Calibre anyway, then it now requires no extra steps.
Legally, sure. Some place have no laws on the topic at all, some places are working on laws to ensure that is legally protected, and even in the US, while some claim the DCMA makes it illegal, there are many legal experts who say it does not. It has, AFAIK, not been tested.
Ethically, as I said, up to the individual.

Last edited by ApK; 12-07-2010 at 10:40 AM.
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Old 12-07-2010, 09:27 AM   #80
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snip

My question is if you live in the US why even buy a Kindle anymore, nothing adventagous, in fact its more of a ball and chain.
You have many good points in the snipped part... and some that also raise other questions. I suspect the legal and ethical issues are interrelated.

Apart from legal issues (which appear debatable), if you borrow an ebook from the library, it's hard for me to see any ethical reason that prevents me from reading it on the device of my choice. The device seems... or should be... irrelevant to the issue. IMHO, of course.

If I borrow an audio book, does anyone care if I listen on a Toshiba or Sony or <you name it> device? For us common 'taters, it's hard to see where using the reading device of choice becomes an ethical issue.

As regards your last point, I suspect there are many like me who prefer a real KB to a virtual KB. And others who prefer touch screens. So what does living in the US have to do with buying anything but Kindle? (babK)
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Old 12-07-2010, 09:29 AM   #81
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The display in Target is a non-working model, genius. I'm just teasing...The point of all the talk of superiority/inferiority was just to call out that it's important for people to consider their own needs, not just to take some strangers word that X is good, Y is bad, no matter how much bluster and false authority they keep trying to put behind the claim. Even if that person is right for themself, that doesn't make them right period. The same point, I hope, as your closing line in your last post.



Oh yes. It is so easy now that I'm afraid to talk about it in fear that the DRM companies will change something to make it harder. It's scary how simple it is, and, if you're using Calibre anyway, then it now requires no extra steps.
Legally, sure. Some place have no laws on the topic at all, some places are working on laws to ensure that is illegally protected, and even in the US, while some claim the DCMA makes it illegal, there are many legal opinions that say it does not. It has, AFAIK, not been tested.
Ethically, as I said, up to the individual.
No I agree superior and inferior is all up to the individual needs. If I was an international businessman that liked to buy his books on the go, the kindle would be a better fit for me overall than the nook, not huge but I can see where downloading internationally on the fly could have it's merits if I was overseas's more often than not.
And also If I was an avid note taker and annotation person, I can see where the physical keyboard would be easier to use than a virtual one on the nook.

On the flip side, it just is easier to get books from the library and other stores than it is on the kindle (as easy as it is for a tech savvy person such as yourself) not everyone is in the same level nor wants to be bothered as well. So for general reading , library lending and looking for the best deals across the net, then the nook would be a better fit.

Both offer a great homebase platform for wireless downloading and apps across multiple devices etc. So to me in my needs that's a wash.

Well Happy Holidays.

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Old 12-07-2010, 09:34 AM   #82
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You have many good points in the snipped part... and some that also raise other questions. I suspect the legal and ethical issues are interrelated.

Apart from legal issues (which appear debatable), if you borrow an ebook from the library, it's hard for me to see any ethical reason that prevents me from reading it on the device of my choice. The device seems... or should be... irrelevant to the issue. IMHO, of course.

If I borrow an audio book, does anyone care if I listen on a Toshiba or Sony or <you name it> device? For us common 'taters, it's hard to see where using the reading device of choice becomes an ethical issue.

As regards your last point, I suspect there are many like me who prefer a real KB to a virtual KB. And others who prefer touch screens. So what does living in the US have to do with buying anything but Kindle? (babK)

you are right it's not the device that is in question, Im sure Overdrive would welcome Amazon with open arms, but the question comes into play is the fact that you are actuallly altering copyright protected Intellecual Property that does not belong to you. That's the issue at hand.

I mentioned living in the US because BN doesn't have the best international support as of yet., So if you lived in Italy etc a Sony or a kindle would be a better choice.

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Old 12-07-2010, 10:12 AM   #83
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You see us who own a Nook, Kobo, a Sony etc. we can shop freely where we want, when we want at a pluthera of bookstores. Yes you guys have mobi (does anyone even use that anymore?) You Kindle owner have to sneak behind Big Daddy's back and do some things that just may not be the most ethical tatics to get other books.
Amazon sells the books I want at a price I want, I don't need other stores. I don't need to sneak around anyones back because I can buy what I want at competitive prices from Amazon. And they are all archived for me by Amazon.

The books I wanted were not available at B&N or Kobo or Sony the few times the books I wanted that were not avialable at Amazon. So this supposed greatness of multiple stores really does not pan out for me.

I have seen more then one person on this board comment that they bought a Kindle because they could not find the books they want else where and they were not comfortable with stripping DRM. As a matter of fact, that was just posted on again today. The other bookstores may be catching up but they are not there yet.

The real point, for me, is that Amazon's selection is the best around and I can find what I want, when I want it easily enough. I don't have to go shopping at other stores because Amazon has it and if Amazon doesn't have it I have yet to find it at the other stores. Which means that this great flexibility sounds wonderful on paper but really doesn't seem to mean much in practice. Just like the SD card slot and the removable battery.
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Old 12-07-2010, 12:53 PM   #84
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Oh yes. It is so easy now that I'm afraid to talk about it in fear that the DRM companies will change something to make it harder. It's scary how simple it is, and, if you're using Calibre anyway, then it now requires no extra steps.
Legally, sure. Some place have no laws on the topic at all, some places are working on laws to ensure that is legally protected, and even in the US, while some claim the DCMA makes it illegal, there are many legal experts who say it does not. It has, AFAIK, not been tested.
Ethically, as I said, up to the individual.
Getting the configuration and the software right is non-trivial to strip DRM. Once you do it, it is easy, but it is not for the software novice. Saying that because you strip DRM means you can read library books on the Kindle is not a selling point. The stock kindle and normal software user will not be stripping DRM. Heck many have trouble using Adobe Digital Editions at all, let alone stripping DRM from it.

So no, the Kindle is not reading epub library books unless you are a hacker. And I use hacker in the loving 1980s sense of the word that describes me as well.

Additionally for those of us who don't want to carry even a tiny second device to play music, it is very nice to have SD card on my ereader. Considering that Amazon (aka Kindle) bought Audible and promotes their support for Audio Books, you would think that an SD card expansion slot would be a no-brainer.
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Old 12-07-2010, 01:54 PM   #85
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Comparing the Nook Color and Ipad to the Kindle or Nook is comparing Apples and Oranges. They do very different things and fill a very different need.

I prefer an e-reader that I can read easily and that has a long battery life. If I want something to watch videos on, work on a word document, play video games, and listen to music, I'll use my netbook or I'll buy a tablet.

My MP3 player fits into my pants pocket easy enough. Heck, the latest Nano can be clipped onto your shirt, coat, belt loop.

And my e-reader and MP3 player both have way longer battery life then your tablet. This makes me very happy. If I had a K3 I would be able to say that my e-reader and MP3 player weighs less then your tablet but I like the bigger screen on my DXG. So even if I wanted a tablet, the Nook Color would be too small for my liking.
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Old 12-07-2010, 05:19 PM   #86
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So. Got an ereader yet, Ruel?
lol. Not yet. You guys are really helpful, though. I think the next step is to try out a few models at Best Buy.
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Old 12-08-2010, 03:13 PM   #87
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Comparing the Nook Color and Ipad to the Kindle or Nook is comparing Apples and Oranges.
Only the Ipad is Apple. The others will have to be oranges, grapes and melons, I guess.
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Old 12-09-2010, 03:32 AM   #88
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Basically, I just want the eBook reader to read books. I don't care about fancy music players or games. There are other devices for those. First of all, I live in Canada so a few types of eReaders aren't easy to purchase here. I will probably not be getting my books from the stores within the eBook reader. Rather, I will get my books on my computer from various stores or free sources. I think they generally come in the ePub fromat, so compatibility with ePub is important. Additionally, I won't need 3G or even wifi. Decent PDF support would also be nice, but is not mandatory. As long as PDF's that are formatted for a 6'' reader are easily readable, that is all I really need. Furthermore, being able to jump to specific pages in a PDF would be nice. The only other important factor for my decision is price. Hopefully I can get a reader that is $200 CAD or less.

I've done a bit of research so far and this is what I've come up with.

Sony PRS-650 ($230 CAD): It seems to have all the features I want and even has pretty good PDF support, but it's at a price a little too high for my liking.

B&N Nook ($150 US = $154 CAD): This seems like a pretty decent reader and it's cheap. Sadly, it isn't available in Canada so it might be hard to get one.

Kobo ($100 CAD no wifi or $160 CAD wifi): For $100 dollars it seems like a great deal, but I hear that the PDF support is not so good. EDIT: It looks like the $100 dollar Kobo is not going to happen. They have to be picked up locally and there are almost none left.

Kindle 3 ($140 CAD no 3G or $190 CAD 3G): The Kindle 3 is priced well and it seems to be a well reviewed reader. Sadly, though, it doesn't support ePub files and it probably would get very annoying having to convert most of the eBooks I get to a usable format.

So what do you guys think? Should I get one of these four readers or something else entirely?
I always recommend or say to people, buy your device according to the books you like and their online store availability; the device it's just a tool, but the content, books, it's what really matters.

Having said that and if you are in Canada, I think Amazon Kindle will fulfill your needs.

Forget about epub format. I had a Nook, sold now. It's an awesome device but B&N epub books are DRM protected so you will end in a similar "close format" situation to Amazon Kindle vs AZW format.

Think about Kindle 3 as 1st option, then Nook.

PS: by the way, Kindle 3 supports PDFs in native format. You can also use it landscape mode or even zoom some portions of your documents, which right now is not possible with Nook and 1.5 firmware version. I know this by experience, not word of mouth or internet.

Last edited by jocampo; 12-09-2010 at 03:38 AM.
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Old 12-09-2010, 04:50 AM   #89
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... device it's just a tool, but the content, books, it's what really matters. ...
Content is read via the device, so its display needs to be good enough to enable content to be read with ease, for example without interference from glare. I wanted an E Ink Pearl display, so that limited the choice to Kindle 3 or Sony.

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... Forget about epub format ...
I didn't want to be tied to Amazon.

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... Kindle 3 ..... landscape mode or even zoom some portions of your documents ...
Sony PRS-650 enables me to do that.
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Old 12-09-2010, 08:46 AM   #90
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Posts: 2,957
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: USA
Device: iPad mini, Kindle Touch and PW
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcorner View Post
Content is read via the device, so its display needs to be good enough to enable content to be read with ease, for example without interference from glare. I wanted an E Ink Pearl display, so that limited the choice to Kindle 3 or Sony.
You don't look like the person who wanted the answer or initiated the thread? But let me support my arguments.

Kindle, Nook and Sony have basically same decent e-ink display and screen, actually, and based on something I read recently, screen parts come from same manufacturing company so we are not talking about huge differences here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcorner View Post
I didn't want to be tied to Amazon.
Kindles do not limit or force users to buy on Amazon stores only, so saying the device will be tied to Amazon is not correct. The limit is imposed by the users when buying DRM protected books. I do have hundreds (and legal) unprotected MOBI books on my new Kindle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcorner View Post
Sony PRS-650 enables me to do that.
True, but what is the e-library supporting your Device? at least you have B&N and Amazon online store with Nook and Kindle. You will basically have to buy from B&N which again, overall stock and prices are not better than Amazon and books are not DRM protection free.

One of Sony PRS-650 drawbacks is that does not allow you changing line-spacing, margins, font type, not without adding fonts or altering the CSS ebook file and that's an important option(s) when reading pure text only books; you can do that with the Kindle without user intervention or extra hacking.

Also, you paid more than $200 and not even wifi, you kidding me?
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canada, kindle 3, kobo, nook, sony prs-650

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