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Old 11-22-2010, 05:16 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dorino View Post
Excluding the Kindle, but ePub converts to mobi via Calibre without any problems.
But if you have a Kindle, you could run into the dreaded left margin bug.
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Old 11-22-2010, 09:17 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by edbro View Post
I think of the epub page numbering to be more equivalent to what they would be if reading a dead tree book.
Exactly. I read a lot of books that I'll later need to cite as sources, and unless the e-book has page number consistent with a print edition, I'm hosed.
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Old 11-22-2010, 09:43 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by doreenjoy View Post
Exactly. I read a lot of books that I'll later need to cite as sources, and unless the e-book has page number consistent with a print edition, I'm hosed.
You can make the ePub match the pBook's page numbering. But, it's only available for ADE and it's a lot of work. You would need the pBook to be able to do it.

But, since the ePub has page numbers, why not just use them as is?
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Old 11-23-2010, 12:51 AM   #19
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That's my point. The EPUB page numbers match regardless of font size. In LRF, the page numbers change if you change the font size, thus rendering references meaningless.
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Old 11-23-2010, 05:17 AM   #20
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Converting from LRF is also not a big deal.
I don't like paging logic in epubs.
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Old 11-23-2010, 05:31 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kartu View Post
Converting from LRF is also not a big deal.
I don't like paging logic in epubs.
I find the paging in ADE to work fine. It means you can use the page number for reference.

LRF is useless for referencing and so is ePub used in iBooks.

But since you do not like the way page numbers work in ADE, how would you like to see then done?
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Old 11-23-2010, 10:33 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
Since doubt doesn't actually have a shadow we'll go with ePub since it's actually a better format and works better then LRF. With the new Reader Library or Calibre, when you put LRF on the Reader, the Reader has to calculate the pages for every font size. ePub is also way way faster when you have embedded fonts. I'm not sure how fast LRF with embedded fonts would be on the newer faster Readers. But it probably is still slower then then ePub.

LRF.. if you ever get a device that reads eBooks and it's not from Sony, LRF will need to be converted. Most Readers/computer/tablets/iPhone/Android can handle ePub.
I don't care about embedded fonts. I use built-in fonts and more than happy with them.
I didn't know that with the new Reader Library the reader will have to recalculate everything on its own. I used to think that Sony s/w does it for the reader.
Regarding the footers, horses for courses.
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Old 11-23-2010, 08:35 PM   #23
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I also prefer .lrf to .epub. The lrf fonts are richer and darker. I just ordered a PRS 650 to replace my 600 so maybe epubs will look nicer on it. I also like to see my actual progression through the book via page nos.; not some page no. married to a book I'm not holing in my hand. As far as referencing page nos., paperbacks, hard covers, tall paperbacks all have different page nos. for the same book. So you have to reference the page no. to a particualar type of book, one could reference the Sony just as easily.

Worst of all are epubs downloaded from the library. Without a CALIBRE control of format, some are so-so, some are horrible.

One big negative of the lrfs is that the file size winds up being 10 times the size of epubs. Why is this? My brother's lrf's file sizes are only half mine although we have synchronized our CALIBRE settings and can't figure out why.

epubs are generally less than 400 kbs while my lrfs are generally 4,500 kbs. Any advice on reducing these lrf file sizes would be warmly welcomed.
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Old 11-24-2010, 03:07 AM   #24
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I agree with the last poster. I can only get 300 ish LRF's on my PRS-300 but I have currently got over 800 epubs installed.

I do like the look of the fully justified output and the headers and footers do add a touch of class in lrf, but the epub file is faster to turn pages, load, delete etc etc and this I find is the more important feature.
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Old 11-24-2010, 04:50 AM   #25
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File size also depends on what's inside the files. LRF format is also compressed.
Images / embedded fonts is the only think that would make it "fatter" that I can think about.

PS
Will do the size tests today, LRF vs EPUB, converting from fb2 books.
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Old 11-24-2010, 09:26 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doreenjoy View Post
Exactly. I read a lot of books that I'll later need to cite as sources, and unless the e-book has page number consistent with a print edition, I'm hosed.
What a shame we can't just do a full-text search on a paper book
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Old 11-24-2010, 11:52 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gros'Land View Post
I also prefer .lrf to .epub. The lrf fonts are richer and darker. I just ordered a PRS 650 to replace my 600 so maybe epubs will look nicer on it. I also like to see my actual progression through the book via page nos.; not some page no. married to a book I'm not holing in my hand. As far as referencing page nos., paperbacks, hard covers, tall paperbacks all have different page nos. for the same book. So you have to reference the page no. to a particualar type of book, one could reference the Sony just as easily.

Worst of all are epubs downloaded from the library. Without a CALIBRE control of format, some are so-so, some are horrible.

One big negative of the lrfs is that the file size winds up being 10 times the size of epubs. Why is this? My brother's lrf's file sizes are only half mine although we have synchronized our CALIBRE settings and can't figure out why.

epubs are generally less than 400 kbs while my lrfs are generally 4,500 kbs. Any advice on reducing these lrf file sizes would be warmly welcomed.
gros'land

Actually, page numbers for ePub have nothing to do with any paper version. The page numbers for the ePub are unique to the ePub. So really you are seeing where you are in the ePub. And the page numbers are also not tied to a font size like they are with LRF. Also, when the publisher uses an embedded font, it defiantly looks better then font used with LRF. Darker and true bold and true italics.

And ever since Reader Library came out and Sony switched to ePub, LRF pre-formatting was dropped from Reader Library. Calibre never had pre-formatting for LRF and never will.
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Old 11-24-2010, 01:51 PM   #28
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But if you have a Kindle, you could run into the dreaded left margin bug.
I've yet to; And I, personally, am comfortable editing the formatting myself.
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Old 11-24-2010, 05:16 PM   #29
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Just received my 350 today which I bought from the coupon I received recycling my 300. I placed an LRF version and a ePub version of the same book and I much prefer the LRF version. The formatting is much better in my opinion. Also the LRF pre-formatting is much faster on the 350 versus my 300 or 505.

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Old 11-24-2010, 06:11 PM   #30
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LRF over ePUB on the Sony any day.

Caveat: This assumes you have the book in some format (html, txt, etc.) and you are converting it to LRF/ePUB. If you are stuck choosing one format to keep "forever" (not converting), then let's be honest: LRF is dead, and ePUB is where you should go.

But I always convert.

LRF just plain works better on the majority of Sony models. LRFs are clean, well-formatted, and look like books while ePUBs look totally unprofessional. Whenever I buy a book from the Sony Store, it looks so "kludgey," I feel like I'm reading something I downloaded from a pirate site.

Let me explain starting here...

Quote:
Originally Posted by doreenjoy View Post
That's my point. The EPUB page numbers match regardless of font size. In LRF, the page numbers change if you change the font size, thus rendering references meaningless.
JSWolf addressed this. But he left out that ePUB page numbers are determined by some algorithm. It's programmed based on number of words or something. Basically, it's absolutely, completely arbitrary! If you use a different ePUB reader, you will potentially get different numbering than ADE's algorithm assigns. So it's not consistent. Caveat: ePUBs have a way to assign page numbering built-in (most books don't use this facility), so those particularly books that do use the facility are consistent across platforms.

Okay, so the reasons I prefer LRF is that it looks like a book (I'm talking about novels, not text books). Here's we go..

- LRFs have headers. Books have headers.

When I turn on my reader, I want to know what book/chapter/page I'm on at a glance. LRF accomplishes this, but it's impossible in ePUB without a major hack.

- LRFs are right justified. Books are right justified.

The even margin is easier on the eyes. That ePUBs can't be justified on pre-x50 models is mind boggling.

- LRF's paragraphs separate on Tab, not Linefeed. Books, same.

What book have you ever read that puts a vertical whitepspace (linefeed) between every pagraph? None of 'em. Books dilineate paragraphs using a tab (indent).

The thing with ePUB is that it's an HTML-based format, so it tends to "look like" HTML. Web Pages generally dilineate paragraphs by a vertical whitespace, and so do ePUBs. This isn't how books do it, and it's not how an e-Reader should do it either.

Caveat: You can format your ePUB to use a tab instead of vertical whitespace for paragraphs, but it isn't easy.

- LRFs have margins (in general). Books have margins.

By this I mean there is a bit of whitepsace on the top/left/bottom/right margins, separating the text from the edge of the reader. While it's better to fill the e-Ink screen completely (no margins) in terms of word-per-page optimization, books don't do this: every book has whitespace margins. I find this more aesthetically pleasing because it's more book-like.

Yes, ePUBs can do the same, but it's easier with LRF. On the flip-side, LRFs can also be formatted without the margin if that's your preference.

- LRF is faster.

My LRF version of the NIV Bible would cause spinning arrow at opening/initial formatting. But once I navigate to a book/chapter, I jump there -- slowly, yes, but at least it doesn't give the spin.

My ePUB version of the exact same NIV Bible spins on opening too. Then, if I'm at the beginning of a book and select a chapter, I get the spinning arrows as it searches for that chapter. It takes far longer than the LRF version, and I roll my eyes every time, ugh! And this is on my sprightly PRS-600.

LRFs do not have page numbers bleeding into the text.

To even say this is insane. What bozo allowed this through QC? I'm reading an ePUB, and the last word in a long column has a page number over it??? And Sony passes this software through testing? And hasn't fixed the problem? It's such a turkey of a "feature," the programmer should be fired, plain and simple. (I know it's Adobe's fault, but Sony signed off on it.)

LRF's font is better.

Yeah, personal preference. Yeah, you can change the font in an ePUB. But there it is.

LRFs are just plain more book-like than ePUB at this point. Yes, you have more flexibility with ePUB and can make it look like a book (ignoring the right justification bug). But you have your work cut out for you! A good conversion program like pielrf will auto-format for you, and you have the most book-like experience possible on a Sony Reader.

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