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Old 11-16-2010, 05:40 PM   #1
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My prs-350 does not go to chapter start in oreilly epubs

I am just wondering if I should start by bugging sony for an answer (which I have no idea how to do) or oreilly.com. The entire reason I got this device was to have the touch which is much more intuitive for things like getting to toc then say the kindle. well on my oreilly books lets say I go to toc and chapter 3. I can only go from there to the first section in the chapter not to the actual start of the chapter. This is extremely annoying. now I have checked the same books on the kindle (they come in .modi as well) and it does not have an issue going to chapter start there, nor on the ereading software on my n900 phone (fbreader).

So where do I start? Any suggestions? If I cannot get it sorted out unfortunately the device will go back

Thanks for listening...Btw if there is something I can do on calibre to fix this it is fine...
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Old 11-16-2010, 06:12 PM   #2
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This sounds like more of a formatting issue in terms of how the TOC is set up, not a problem with your Sony reader. I'd suggest exploring the Calibre topics here at MR to see if you can get any ideas on how you might fix that problem.
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Old 11-16-2010, 07:10 PM   #3
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This sounds like more of a formatting issue in terms of how the TOC is set up, not a problem with your Sony reader. I'd suggest exploring the Calibre topics here at MR to see if you can get any ideas on how you might fix that problem.
It's worth checking, but it looks to me like it's the device's fault. I see the same behaviour on the PRS-505, for epubs and PDFs. The problem is that clicking on a TOC menu item with sub-items _only_ takes you to the list of sub-items. There's no way to make it take you to the page pointed to by the menu item you want. I have this same problem with PDF files I made myself with pdflatex.
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Old 11-16-2010, 07:58 PM   #4
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does sony actually listen to feedback and send up updates or am I pretty much stuck with it this way? I think I would have to return it as I really am just using it for the technical oreilly stuff and I need to have decent navigation. would be a real shame as the swiping and size are really nice

I never expected this considering how long sony has been in the epub ereader game

Last edited by bluerfoot; 11-16-2010 at 08:02 PM.
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Old 11-16-2010, 08:35 PM   #5
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I'm despondent
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Old 11-17-2010, 08:09 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by bluerfoot View Post
I can only go from there to the first section in the chapter not to the actual start of the chapter.
What do you mean by "first section in the chapter?" Do you mean the section or part immediately preceding the chapter start, one level up? Or does it go to, say, the 4th or 5th page in that chapter?

If it's the former, then are you sure you are tapping the section part in the toc to expand the menu on your reader? If it's the latter, then the problem is most likely in the individual epubs. Either the formatting or the toc file itself.
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Old 11-17-2010, 09:14 AM   #7
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let me give an exact example. I have my oreilly epub called classic shell scripting. now I am somewhere in the book and decide I want to go to chapter 3 "searching and substitutions".

1) click options button
2) click goto
3) select table of contents. first off here the book is not expanded by chapter it is collapsed which is a waste to begin with...
4) click "classic shell scripting"
5) click "3. Searching and substitutions"...
6) now at the top of the page it says "3. searching and substitutions" but that is blacked out (it is the link that if I click it will take be back up a step. so my only choice is to click on one of the chapter subsections. I click on the first to be closest to the beginning of the chapter (subsection "searching for text").
7) I am still not taken to the "searching for text" subsection, I am taken to a listing of each subsection of searching for text. I click on the first one "simple grep".
8) Finally I am at least in the book at the "simple grep" subsection of "searching for text" which itself it a subsection of "chapter 3. searching and substitutions".
9) I click the page back (or swipe back) either 5 pages now to get to the "searching for text" subsection, or 7 pages to get to "chapter 3. searching and substitutions."

overall 13 clicks to get to the start of the chapter. I emailed sony here is there response which I did not really understand (I am going to call them today)...


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brad kelley
Thanks I should also point out (if you read this reply) that toc works fine o...

9:59 PM (11 hours ago)
brad kelleyLoading...
9:59 PM (11 hours ago)
brad kelley
to Support

Thanks I should also point out (if you read this reply) that toc works fine on my kindle for these books (.mobi I know) but also in fbreader (epub) on my n900 phone.
- Show quoted text -


On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 9:30 PM, Support <support@info.sel.sony.com> wrote:

Thank you for contacting Sony Technical Support.

We appreciate the time you have taken to write us. Your email has been assigned Case ID 1216022. An email support agent should reply to your letter within the next 24 hours. Occasionally some inquiries will require additional time.

Thank you for your patience as we strive to provide you with the best service and support possible.

The Sony Online Support Team


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show details 10:32 PM (10 hours ago)

Brad,

The problem that you are having with not being able to go directly from the table of content to the specific page you desire is a known issue. The the problem will be with the way the EPUB book was uploaded. It seems that the book will only work that way with the readers you mention before but not with the Sony reader since it was program on a different way. You can try doing those thing with a book from the reader store since those are program to work specifically with the Reader.

If this information does not resolve your issue, please contact us at (866) 962-7669.

Thank you for being a valued Sony Customer.

The Sony Email Response Team
C1OX
Denis

Original Message Follows:
------------------------
- Show quoted text -

Thanks I should also point out (if you read this reply) that toc works fine on my kindle for these books (.mobi I know) but also in fbreader (epub) on my n900 phone.


On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 9:30 PM, Support <support@info.sel.sony.com> wrote:

Thank you for contacting Sony Technical Support.

We appreciate the time you have taken to write us. Your email has been assigned Case ID 1216022. An email support agent should reply to your letter within the next 24 hours. Occasionally some inquiries will require additional time.

Thank you for your patience as we strive to provide you with the best service and support possible.

The Sony Online Support Team

Bluerfoot
Thanks I am not sure I understand...Are you saying ONLY books purchased from ...

10:52 PM (10 hours ago)
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Support
to me

show details 11:21 PM (9 hours ago)

from Support <support@info.sel.sony.com>
to Bluerfoot <bluerfoot@gmail.com>
date Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 11:21 PM
subject Re: Sony Support Request Acknowledgment

hide details 11:21 PM (9 hours ago)

Brad Bluerfoot,

Thank you for contacting Sony Support.

I'm sorry you're experiencing difficulty while navigating the table content of your EPUB file however, this does not mean that you can not acquire materials to read on the reader. Since the reader is able to display RTF, TXT, LRF and unsecured PDF files, there are many Internet sites where you can obtain reading material such as:

- www.gutenberg.org
- www.manybooks.net
- www.baen.com


TIP: Any unsecured reading material in the supported formats should be viewable. Also, articles from the Internet can be copied and pasted into a word processing program then saved in the RTF format (without images) for viewing on the Reader.

If this information does not resolve your issue, please contact us at (866) 962-7669.

Thank you for being a valued Sony Customer.

The Sony Email Response Team
CHLD
Henry

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok I don't really understand the first reponse...anyway let me compare on my n900 phone which has fbreader and is reading the book as epub...both here and from the kindle I am starting from within the book already (as I was on the sony).

1) finger tap my screen to bring up options
2) finger tap toc
3) finger tap "chapter .3 searching and substitutions". I am then at the start of the chapter.

now on my kindle which has the book as emobi..

1) click menu
2) click goto
3) click toc
3) click pg down x3
4) click on "chapter 3. searching and substitutions

I think anyone reading this will agree that the sony method is way flawed, from not having the toc expanded at the start when you click on toc (it takes you to the collapsed book, like duh I selected toc for this book why do I now have to click on the book title to expand it), to the fact that you have to drill down to subsections of subsections to even get anywhere in the book.

Thanks for listening, if there is no fix this very nice ereader will go back, I think any benefits of having a touch interface are gone for me as the navigation stands at this moment.

Last edited by bluerfoot; 11-17-2010 at 09:21 AM.
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Old 11-17-2010, 10:26 AM   #8
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I only saw one useful tip in Sony's response: did you buy the O'Reilly title from the Sony store? The formatting CAN be different from store to store so that is worth a shot. It is also worth contacting O'Reilly as well, if only to see if they've encountered the issue before.

You are not going to get the reader to behave differently so your option at this point is to try to get the epub to behave differently. I would open it up in Calibre and a text editor and strip out all the subsection navigation links, leaving only a top-level TOC (because it sounds like that's all you want).

But if there is another reader that displays O'Reilly titles in the way that you need.... then you are probably better off with that one!

eP
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Old 11-17-2010, 10:38 AM   #9
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I only saw one useful tip in Sony's response: did you buy the O'Reilly title from the Sony store? The formatting CAN be different from store to store so that is worth a shot. It is also worth contacting O'Reilly as well, if only to see if they've encountered the issue before.

You are not going to get the reader to behave differently so your option at this point is to try to get the epub to behave differently. I would open it up in Calibre and a text editor and strip out all the subsection navigation links, leaving only a top-level TOC (because it sounds like that's all you want).

But if there is another reader that displays O'Reilly titles in the way that you need.... then you are probably better off with that one!

eP
Thanks, I guess It is time to learn calibre. So far a installed it (on fedora 14) connected the 350 and hit move to device. Its says it had problem communicating with the device (bad sign) but it did copy across. I am very surprised if stuff from sony is all that works correctly it really defeats the purpose of me moving away from proprietary kindle. And it is not like oreilly is some obscure publisher...I have 15 oreilly books that was the reason I got this, to carry them in my pocket so to speak, not to get locked into the sony store...

Last edited by bluerfoot; 11-17-2010 at 10:43 AM.
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Old 11-17-2010, 12:53 PM   #10
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bluerrfoot, now I understand the problem. I agree with you that the way the Sony readers collapse the TOC sections is a pain, and it would be much easier if they just showed the whole thing at once. Also, just getting to the TOC is an extra step on these readers compared to, say, Stanza on my Touch. I wish they had one-click direct access to the TOC.

As for your O'Reilly books, I think elememoP is right that the best way to deal with it is to delete the sub-sections from the TOC file using Calibre's tweak epub feature. It's easy to do. However, it you need to view the sub-sections in the TOC for reference, that is not an ideal solution. In which case returning the reader if you can't live with these limitations is your only option.

It's too bad. I hope Sony works on the TOC limitation in the future.
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Old 11-17-2010, 12:56 PM   #11
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The problem that you are having with not being able to go directly from the table of content to the specific page you desire is a known issue. The the problem will be with the way the EPUB book was uploaded. It seems that the book will only work that way with the readers you mention before but not with the Sony reader since it was program on a different way. You can try doing those thing with a book from the reader store since those are program to work specifically with the Reader.
This is the important bit in their responses. The O'Reilly epubs aren't wrong, they just aren't hacked to work with the Sony TOC menu software. As I said above, the menu software was designed so that any menu item with sub-items only allows you to go to the sub-item list. That was probably a design decision to keep things simple in the user interface, but it has produced this annoying problem. This is not epub specific, as you get exactly the same behaviour with PDF files that have chapters and sub-chapters.

My guess is that a "proper Sony" epub or PDF would have an added entry at the start of each sub-item list that just points to the content that the parent item points to. The added entry would not have any sub-items, so you could use it to go to the proper content. But I could be wrong. The Sigil list is probably a better place to look for information on this. I can't believe that no one creating epubs ever noticed this before.
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Old 11-17-2010, 01:27 PM   #12
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Thanks I emailed this info to oreilly support.

Btw Sony does not have phone support for the ereader as far as I can find and their live chat does not connect to a representative, I tried it twice and waited 30 minutes both times. That is bad business...So far the only positive is a) finding this helpful forum and b) that I did not get a cover for it...
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Old 11-17-2010, 03:54 PM   #13
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Ok from sony...so I guess its game over...

Brad,

I'm sorry you're still experiencing difficulties not been able to access to a chapter heading or subsection of the book. the reason is that each book has it's own format to work with each Reader device, in this case the book that you are trying is not encrypted to access directly to chapter in the Sony Reader, instead you will have to access to the subsections to get to the specific chapter. We appreciate your feedback in this matter we will take it in consideration for the future models.
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Old 11-17-2010, 08:01 PM   #14
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Ok from sony...so I guess its game over...
Probably. I do use my PRS-505 for reading O'Reilly epubs in a linear fashion when learning topics, so the broken TOC entries don't usually bother me. I am planning to get a PocketBook 902 e-reader when they become available later this month, assuming that the PDF and epub functionality is good. The screen is larger than on the Sony devices, so I'm thinking it will be good for reference books (though not as portable).
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Old 11-18-2010, 09:54 AM   #15
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I did speak with oreilly and they will look at the issue, I actually have a bit of faith that if it is something they can fix that they will. I see I have a 21 say return policy with dell so I will hang on a bit longer.

once you try touch clicking is a crutch...
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