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Old 11-10-2010, 08:38 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by brecklundin View Post
F There was a reason the Que (not pure vaporware but close) was a 14" panel and it would have sold well if they ironed out the software and ability to write notes within documents.
Que was not a 14" panel. It was a 9.7" panel in a 8 1/2 x 11 device.

Triton info states it can be had in sizes up to 12"
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Old 11-10-2010, 08:45 AM   #62
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oh, geeze, then which device was the 14" one? I know there was another that we never really saw saw...ohhhh, I dismember now it was the Skiff...that was 14" right?

EDIT: nope, not even the Skiff was 14" it was 11.5" which is still close enough that I could see that size working...

http://gizmodo.com/5439734/skiff-rea...reader-to-date

As always thanks for keeping me on my toes!!

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Old 11-10-2010, 09:46 AM   #63
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The product is nice but with its own disadvantages:
1. Inferior optical clarity.
2. Non-portable size.
3. Unvelievably priced high! Get an iPad instead!
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Old 11-10-2010, 11:41 AM   #64
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I think 11" or 12" panels would make e-readers significantly less convenient to carry around. I'm in a special situation, because I'm in a wheelchair and would find rolling around with something that size difficult (whereas I could put a Kindle 3 in my backpack fairly easily), but I
The one discussed appears sized to fit a briefcase. It would fit in a backpack, or the shoulder bag I usually carry.

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think the (non-DX) Kindles and Nooks of the world are closer to a size that someone would want to carry. And too much smaller than that, and you run into readability (as in, not being able to read enough at once) problems. (I know a lot of people read on their iPhones and other phones, but from what I understand, they do this in short bursts, and do their "main" reading on an e-reader or computer screen).
My normal ebook viewer is a PalmOS PDA, with a 320x480 3.25"x2.25" display. Using custom fonts in Plucker and MobiPocket, my two usual book viewers, I get about 15 lines on a landscape screen, with about 120 words per screen. It's comfortable to read, and I can do so for extended stretches. (I'm reading Bertrand Russell's _The Problems of Philosophy_ in a Mobi edition from MR now.)
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Old 11-10-2010, 11:44 AM   #65
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The fact is that eInk ereaders turned out to be the great joke of CES 2010. The Chinese market sold 300,000 ereaders in 2009, but despite all the hopeful talk many makers, such as EDO and Foxit, had pulled out of the ereader market by the middle of 2010. Next year's craze will be tablets for web-browsing, not exactly a good fit for eInk, even with colour.
Lots of Chinese electronics assemblers looking for devices to make, so no surprise a lot jumped into the ereader market. No surprise most of them got nowhere, too.

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Hanvon's big enough that it can afford to take a punt on colour eInk, but they'll be lucky to cover their costs domestically.
And even luckier to gain any traction outside of the domestic market.

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No. brecklundin's point was that he needed "accurate" colour.
He might. The question I asked is whether the general market does.
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Old 11-10-2010, 12:05 PM   #66
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Macworld has a story with a pic I don't remember seeing earlier in the thread. The color eInk looks very washed out and almost B&W (though hopefully that is an artifact of the lighting.)

Also referened and pictured is an LG display.

YouTube video linked in the above article showing colors and refresh speeds

Last edited by artifact; 11-10-2010 at 12:09 PM. Reason: Added direct link to the video
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Old 11-10-2010, 12:42 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by DMcCunney View Post

He might. The question I asked is whether the general market does.
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Actually, yes, yes they do. But remember Joe Q. Public has no idea if 4096 colors is enough or not. Categories of books which color is seriously important references from photography books to books travel books to books on art and antiques and many other categories where photos are an important portion of the book, as important as the text itself. Color accuracy is very important for antiques reference as colors of pieces will offer clues to maker or just the ability to differential between a rare short run color for an item or a common different color of an object. The lack of true color will affect the value of the references in almost all cases in this category but all of these categories depend on accurate color and combined represent no small portion of annual sales.

In fact I know one author of a very popular and important photography reference who eagerly awaited the iPad simply so the Kindle version hos his book would be able to work in color. It's a book on lighting which need the full color the iPad offers.

So, while the E-ink color panels certainly will be good enough for books with simple colored graphics are used to improve it's usefulness, there is a HUGE segment of readers who will not be served by this generation of panels. Because of that there is not as much incentive for the publishers of the books which need better color rendering, to spend the money on creating ebook versions...I am not even sold that magazines will be happy with the color reproduction, especially the higher end mags.

Still we have to wait and see what they look like in the real world.
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Old 11-10-2010, 12:54 PM   #68
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Macworld has a story with a pic I don't remember seeing earlier in the thread. The color eInk looks very washed out and almost B&W (though hopefully that is an artifact of the lighting.)

Also referened and pictured is an LG display.

YouTube video linked in the above article showing colors and refresh speeds
Indeed, the colors are so washed out it is honestly difficult to call them colors.
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Old 11-10-2010, 01:07 PM   #69
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He might. The question I asked is whether the general market does.
Actually, yes, yes they do. But remember Joe Q. Public has no idea if 4096 colors is enough or not. Categories of books which color is seriously important references from photography books to books travel books to books on art and antiques and many other categories where photos are an important portion of the book, as important as the text itself. Color accuracy is very important for antiques reference as colors of pieces will offer clues to maker or just the ability to differential between a rare short run color for an item or a common different color of an object. The lack of true color will affect the value of the references in almost all cases in this category but all of these categories depend on accurate color and combined represent no small portion of annual sales.
Oh, I concur. I've mentioned references on art, photography, and design as works ill-suited for electronic publication due to lack of color support in eInk based readers and screen sizes too small to handle the pages.

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In fact I know one author of a very popular and important photography reference who eagerly awaited the iPad simply so the Kindle version hos his book would be able to work in color. It's a book on lighting which need the full color the iPad offers.
Yep. Accurate color is an absolute requirement for that sort of book.

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So, while the E-ink color panels certainly will be good enough for books with simple colored graphics are used to improve it's usefulness, there is a HUGE segment of readers who will not be served by this generation of panels. Because of that there is not as much incentive for the publishers of the books which need better color rendering, to spend the money on creating ebook versions...I am not even sold that magazines will be happy with the color reproduction, especially the higher end mags.
The pictures I've seen of the new color eInk displays don't thrill me. Yes, they do color, but not all that well. I need greater accuracy and vibrancy for the sort of stuff I'd be likely to view.

I just don't assume I'm representative of the broader market. The question is how good is "good enough", which will be determined by who the user is and what they want to read. Some folks may find a color eInk display acceptable for the material they read. What we don't know is whether there will be enough such folks to make devices using color eInk viable in the market.

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Still we have to wait and see what they look like in the real world.
Exactly. I look forward to seeing accurate photos, and not someone's video of a device in action.
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Old 11-10-2010, 01:31 PM   #70
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Indeed, the colors are so washed out it is honestly difficult to call them colors.
Actually, for first gen I thought it looked pretty good. I guess it looks better in person.

Remember, eInk monochrome was the same way. The first gen while nice had pretty low contrast. Then the gen 2, vizplex improved that... and finally the current 3g pearl are the best so far. But even thought the 1g was no where near as good as the pearl's.

I expect the color will go through the same improvement revs and many will be happy with the 1st gen stuff.

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Old 11-10-2010, 02:16 PM   #71
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I expect the color will go through the same improvement revs and many will be happy with the 1st gen stuff.
Unless they do better than 12 bit (4096 colors), I don't see a lot of interest.

I have electronic volumes on photography, art, and design. 12 bit color would simply not be acceptable for the display.
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Old 11-10-2010, 02:23 PM   #72
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this seem rushed.
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Old 11-10-2010, 02:27 PM   #73
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Actually, yes, yes they do. But remember Joe Q. Public has no idea if 4096 colors is enough or not. Categories of books which color is seriously important references from photography books to books travel books to books on art and antiques and many other categories where photos are an important portion of the book, as important as the text itself. Color accuracy is very important for antiques reference as colors of pieces will offer clues to maker or just the ability to differential between a rare short run color for an item or a common different color of an object. The lack of true color will affect the value of the references in almost all cases in this category but all of these categories depend on accurate color and combined represent no small portion of annual sales.

In fact I know one author of a very popular and important photography reference who eagerly awaited the iPad simply so the Kindle version hos his book would be able to work in color. It's a book on lighting which need the full color the iPad offers.

So, while the E-ink color panels certainly will be good enough for books with simple colored graphics are used to improve it's usefulness, there is a HUGE segment of readers who will not be served by this generation of panels. Because of that there is not as much incentive for the publishers of the books which need better color rendering, to spend the money on creating ebook versions...I am not even sold that magazines will be happy with the color reproduction, especially the higher end mags.

Still we have to wait and see what they look like in the real world.
but that same Joe Q. Public aka the masses will also know that these colors are very "dull" and will still be attracted to the shiny, nice and vibrant LCD screens.

It's a good step in the right direction but I don't think there is much of window of opprotunity here before eink becomes a "niche" market.

This seems awfully rushed before it's ready for prime time.
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Old 11-10-2010, 02:39 PM   #74
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but that same Joe Q. Public aka the masses will also know that these colors are very "dull" and will still be attracted to the shiny, nice and vibrant LCD screens.

It's a good step in the right direction but I don't think there is much of window of opprotunity here before eink becomes a "niche" market.

This seems awfully rushed before it's ready for prime time.
I don't think the underlying technology will ever be ready for prime time. Unless eInk can manage better than 12 bit 4096 color displays, this simply won't be adequate for most ebooks using color content.

eInk is a niche market, and will remain so. It's just dandy for monochrome text with, perhaps, line art or grey scale illustrations, and sees productive use in a variety of dedicated reader devices where the fact that people find it easier to read and it has long battery life between recharges are the compelling features.

If you need anything like accurate color, or you need to view animations or video, eInk is not for you. Color eInk doesn't do a good enough job for most of the material you might need color to view, and the screen refresh is far too slow to handle any material that requires motion.

The big question is whether LCD screens supporting proper color will simply take over the market and leave eInk non-viable because not enough people will want the displays to make it worth the while to make them.
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Old 11-10-2010, 02:47 PM   #75
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I don't think the underlying technology will ever be ready for prime time. Unless eInk can manage better than 12 bit 4096 color displays, this simply won't be adequate for most ebooks using color content.

eInk is a niche market, and will remain so. It's just dandy for monochrome text with, perhaps, line art or grey scale illustrations, and sees productive use in a variety of dedicated reader devices where they fact that people find it easier to read and it has long battery life between recharges are the compelling features.

If you need anything like accurate color, or you need to view animations or video, eInk is not for you. Color eInk doesn't do a good enough job for most of the material you might need color to view, and the screen refresh is far to slow to handle any material that requires motion.

The big question is whether LCD screens supporting proper color will simply take over the market and leave eInk non-viable because not enough people will want the displays to make it worth the while to make them.
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I hear what you are saying and agree. But I do think in the long run eink could get there, with accurate, vibrant color's. But eink has been moving at a snails pace and if it keeps going at this rate, it'll be an afterthought.
LCD ereaders will dominate and the eink will be be a much smaller niche market.

I prefer eink but let's face it the masses want color and eink advancement is like watching paint dry.

I hope I'm wrong, color eink or Mirasol could be a game changer but it's got speed up.
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