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Old 05-04-2015, 05:40 AM   #1
cramoisi
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hyphens - comparing epub - kepub in 3.15.0

Ok, i got too much free time. Examples are in french, but I don't think it makes any difference.

epub sent with KoboTouch driver (everything is correct)

«À 4 heures et demi ce jour-là, l’ins-
pecteur principal Chen Cao, chef de la bri-
gade des affaires spéciales, police crimi-
nelle de Shanghai, ignorait tout de l’af-
faire.»

«mais il se trouvait
à une distance appréciable du bruit. L’im-
meuble était bien situé, près du centre du
quartier de Luwan.»

kepub (KoboTouchExtended generated from epub, same book another page)

«Il avait envoyé de invita-
tions sans réfléchir» (correct)

«un terme qui n’était pas posit-
if, car on pouvait l’utiliser» (incorrect)

kepub generated from epub with "kepub output driver" and sent with KoboTouch driver (same result as above)

«Ils n’avaient guère le temps de parl-
er.» (incorrect)

official kepub bought on kobo store (another book)

The result is worse than the previous cases because it doesn't wait trailing punctuation to go postal :

«enseignement existent qui nous servi- (correct)
raient de guide ? Il doit y avoir une néc- (incorrect)
essité particulière qui conduit à ne pas»

«au plaisir et à l’enseignement des plais- (incorrect)
irs, de la»


(the sentences from the first three examples are from Xiaolong, Visa pour Shangai ; the last one from the new traduction of Kamasutra by F. Boyer, POL)

Last edited by cramoisi; 05-04-2015 at 05:49 AM.
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Old 05-04-2015, 05:49 AM   #2
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This is a well known behavior. Kepub hyphenation is broken. This is one of the main reasons to use epub.
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Old 05-04-2015, 06:36 AM   #3
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Yup. As I said, i got too much free time. This entry was mainly to answer davidfor's question http://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...&postcount=242 but found the answer too wide to put it in a dedicated plugin thread.

Regarding epubs, 3.15.0 has its downsides as the in-book justification doesn't work anymore ( http://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...&postcount=151 )
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Old 05-04-2015, 01:36 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cramoisi View Post
Regarding epubs, 3.15.0 has its downsides as the in-book justification doesn't work anymore ( http://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...&postcount=151 )
EPUB in-book justification works fine in firmware 3.15.0, no change from previous versions, it is just that in some cases the publisher has forced the justification in the book and you will need to edit the stylesheet to fix it.

(There is also a patch that will override the publisher's forced justification in EPUBS the same way the KEPUB reader does, but it has the same bad effects as in the KEPUB reader, i.e. it can also affect things that shouldn't have their justification changed such as images and headings.)

Last edited by GeoffR; 05-04-2015 at 02:02 PM. Reason: (There is also a patch ...)
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Old 05-04-2015, 03:02 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by GeoffR View Post
EPUB in-book justification works fine in firmware 3.15.0, no change from previous versions, it is just that in some cases the publisher has forced the justification in the book and you will need to edit the stylesheet to fix it.

(There is also a patch that will override the publisher's forced justification in EPUBS the same way the KEPUB reader does, but it has the same bad effects as in the KEPUB reader, i.e. it can also affect things that shouldn't have their justification changed such as images and headings.)
Yup, davidfor pointed out this fact to me (I was led wrong because of the habit of using kepub). But it's too much work to edit each book and i don't want to strip down each text-align properties in the process as some need to stay the way they are. In the end, the left and right justification + correct hyphenation is nearer from the paper reading experience. It will be fine like that.
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Old 05-04-2015, 03:14 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by GERGE View Post
This is a well known behavior. Kepub hyphenation is broken. This is one of the main reasons to use epub.
Why don't they fix that? (Sorry, if this matter is well known, I'm quite new to this World of hyphens and Kepubs. I'm learning a lot from you all.)
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Old 05-04-2015, 07:59 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by emiliolara View Post
Why don't they fix that? (Sorry, if this matter is well known, I'm quite new to this World of hyphens and Kepubs. I'm learning a lot from you all.)
The most likely reason they don't fix it is that they are busy fixing other problems.

Bugs are usually fixed in order of importance. If something is completely broken, it gets fixed immediately. If it prevents the thing being used, causes loss of data, it will get fixed very quickly. If it is purely cosmetic, then it will be low importance. This also depends on how long the bug will take to fix. The less time, the more likely. How easily a bug is to reproduce also affects how quickly it is fixed. If it takes seconds to reproduce and it happens all the time, it makes it easier to find the bug and fix it. If it takes days or weeks to reproduce, then fixing it takes longer because it takes much longer to work out what is wrong.

To me the hyphenation bug is low priority. It seems to happen in a relatively small number of cases. If 50% of the hyphenation is wrong, then fixing it will affect a lot of users. But, if only 1% is wrong, then it drops down the priorities as it probably isn't being seen by a lot of people.

And of course, the biggest reason a bug isn't fixed: The developers don't know about it. If you see a bug, report it to the Kobo. If nobody tells them, they can't fix it. If they see it themselves and nobody outside tells them, then it becomes a low priority bug to fix as it obviously isn't important to the users.
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Old 05-04-2015, 11:35 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by davidfor View Post
The most likely reason they don't fix it is that they are busy fixing other problems.

Bugs are usually fixed in order of importance. If something is completely broken, it gets fixed immediately. If it prevents the thing being used, causes loss of data, it will get fixed very quickly. If it is purely cosmetic, then it will be low importance. This also depends on how long the bug will take to fix. The less time, the more likely. How easily a bug is to reproduce also affects how quickly it is fixed. If it takes seconds to reproduce and it happens all the time, it makes it easier to find the bug and fix it. If it takes days or weeks to reproduce, then fixing it takes longer because it takes much longer to work out what is wrong.

To me the hyphenation bug is low priority. It seems to happen in a relatively small number of cases. If 50% of the hyphenation is wrong, then fixing it will affect a lot of users. But, if only 1% is wrong, then it drops down the priorities as it probably isn't being seen by a lot of people.

And of course, the biggest reason a bug isn't fixed: The developers don't know about it. If you see a bug, report it to the Kobo. If nobody tells them, they can't fix it. If they see it themselves and nobody outside tells them, then it becomes a low priority bug to fix as it obviously isn't important to the users.
I was under the impression that the ACCESS renderer used by Kobo is not developed by Kobo. If that is the case, then Kobo may not be able to directly fix rendering issues in the first place.
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Old 05-05-2015, 12:21 AM   #9
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I was under the impression that the ACCESS renderer used by Kobo is not developed by Kobo. If that is the case, then Kobo may not be able to directly fix rendering issues in the first place.
Yes, there is that. Maintenance of both ACCESS and the Adobe RMSDK are out of Kobo's hands. And there will be other libraries from other third parties. Kobo have to convince the third party of the bug and then wait for the fixed. Then Kobo have to test the updated library with the rest of the code to make sure it still works and doesn't break anything else. Because of the work involved in that, the libraries will not be updated very frequently.
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Old 05-24-2015, 03:23 AM   #10
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Hi !
Is there a way to deactivate hyphenation aglo in epub to just use the suggest hyphen (those with ­ put by the plugin «*hyphenate this*» ? It works with sideloaded kepub, where you can have a full justified text without any hyphen, but the epub reader seems to mix the two behaviors...
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Old 05-24-2015, 05:42 AM   #11
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Is there a way to deactivate hyphenation aglo in epub to just use the suggest hyphen (those with * put by the plugin «*hyphenate this*» ?
Adding body {-adobe-hyphenate: explicit; } to the stylesheet should do it. (Unless the publisher has used -adobe-hyphenate: auto; in a more specific style, in which case you will need to remove that too.)

Edit: Adding body {adobe-hyphenate: explicit; } to the stylesheet should do it. (Unless the publisher has used adobe-hyphenate: auto; in a more specific style, in which case you will need to remove that too.)

Last edited by GeoffR; 05-24-2015 at 06:57 AM. Reason: adobe-hyphenate, not -adobe-hyphenate.
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Old 05-24-2015, 06:11 AM   #12
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Yeah, I tried, but it ruins other styles (like titles, which before were centered are now left-align... and paragraph which are not indent anymore...)

Last edited by cramoisi; 05-24-2015 at 06:16 AM.
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Old 05-24-2015, 06:49 AM   #13
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Yeah, I tried, but it ruins other styles (like titles, which before were centered are now left-align... and paragraph which are not indent anymore...)
I haven't seen anything like that happen, but testing just now it does seem that -adobe-hyphenate is being ignored: automatic hyphenation is always on and there is no way to turn it off.

I don't know if that just happened in 3.15.0 or it was like that in the previous firmware too (I always have automatic hyphenation on anyway so I probably wouldn't notice.)


Edit: Arrgh sorry my mistake, the style should be body {adobe-hyphenate: explicit;} not -adobe-hyphenate with a leading hyphen. It is working correctly on my Glo with firmware 3.15.0.

(I've corrected my earlier post to avoid future confusion.)

Last edited by GeoffR; 05-24-2015 at 06:58 AM. Reason: adobe-hyphenate, not -adobe-hyphenate.
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Old 05-24-2015, 07:25 AM   #14
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Yup ! I tried it on the * and p tag but not (why the hell not ?) on the body.
90% of the time the epub hyphens are correct, but I notice an issue with the non-breakable spaces and the horizontal ellipsis (and in french they are heavily used for one is needed in front of ! ? ; etc. which is not so visible in english I think).

http://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...6&postcount=36

Anyway : adding soft hyphens + body {adobe-hyphenate: explicit;} in kobo_extra.css is a great combo Thanks for the guidance !
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