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Old 11-01-2010, 06:36 PM   #16
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TeleRead did a piece on this same story a couple of days ago. A poster used the comments section to shed more light on the situation. The bottom line is to back up your content but also that this is not a widespread issue.

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Comments:

*
Doug says:
October 27, 2010 at 2:00 pm

I’m not a NOOK expert, but I play one on Teh Intarwebs.

I believe that this NOOK owner was given incorrect information by Customer Service. The situation that he experienced is one of the NOOK spontaneously executing a Factory Fallback. This is a total wipe of the NOOK, resetting it to the “fresh from the factory” configuration including the originally-installed version of the software. Older NOOKs will then find that the original software version needs to be updated to the current version.

It’s not the update (or failure to update) that caused the problem. The problem was the Factory Fallback which wiped the NOOK and triggered the need for an update by reverting to old software. There has been no software update released since June 21 (version 1.4), so there are probably precious few people who have an un-updated NOOK unless they’ve soft-rooted the puppy.

The Factory Fallback is not supposed to occur spontaneously. It normally requires a specific lengthy sequence of operations with the power button. However, there have been scattered reports of spontaneous Factory Fallbacks occurring. I’ve seen reports from a couple of users who have defective units that repeatedly do Factory Fallbacks. There’s a small chance that the user accidentally triggered the Factory Fallback, but in my opinion it’s extremely unlikely. Most likely, that particular NOOK is defective.

After the NOOK has recovered from the Factory Fallback and been registered, it will download the user’s B&N e-book list (they’re calling them NOOKbooks now). The EPUB files for the five most recent purchases will be downloaded, but the rest will need to be individually downloaded which is a pain. Registering and downloading does require wireless access, so for the few users in remote areas who have to travel to B&N or McDonalds to get wireless access, there’s an added nuisance factor.

Sideloaded content on the built-in memory will have been wiped. The NOOK will need to be reauthorized under Adobe Digital Editions and the user will need to reload the wiped content.

Sideloaded content on any add-in microSD card will be intact. Factory Fallback does not touch the add-in card. Some users keep all of their sideloaded content on an added micro-SD card just for this reason.

Occasionally B&N Customer Service will direct the user to perform a Factory Fallback sequence in order to clear up an extremely recalcitrant problem. One such problem is that a few NOOK Wi-Fi units stubbornly refuse to activate their Wi-Fi module when new out-of-the-box. Customer Service is supposed to caution the user that all data on the unit will be lost by the operation, which isn’t a problem for a new out-of-the-box unit.

In the end, a Factory Fallback is basically an inconvenience. No B&N content should be permanently lost (emphasis on *should*), it just needs to be redownloaded. Presumably, all sideloaded files still exist on whatever computer they were loaded from and can be sideloaded again.
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Old 11-01-2010, 08:25 PM   #17
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Old 11-02-2010, 05:31 AM   #18
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Note to self: Never buy a Nook, never use B&N.

First things first; yes, backup is mandatory - I know that and do that!

Anyway, the person did not back up his files (his fault), got an update/auto-reset of his device without warning, and when complaining to B&N, he was told he was stupid by CS, since he had not backed up.
Well - my parents, well up in the 60'ies does not know how to back up and/or update their devices. I do it for them, and see to that nothing is lost in the process. Does that make my parents stupid? No, I didn't think so. Not everybody knows/remembers to back up unless told/informed/warned.

So, if this one-side of the story is correct, then I 100% agree with the unfortunate customer; B&N are the screw-ups here. If they knew (as they apparently did) that a certain percentage of their devices was defective, they should are obliged to replace the device *and* inform about a mandatory backup.

And lastly, a (humorous) sidenote/saying translated from Norwegian:
Brave men don't do backup!
Noone weeps as much as brave men.
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Old 11-02-2010, 10:29 AM   #19
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I'm OC (obsessive compulsive) when it comes to backups and this comes from hard experience. My current backup scheme includes:

1. Nightly backups to a server sitting by my desk. (Running Windows Home Server which makes it extremely easy to restore a backup. During the summer my husband's PC lost his hard drive. I was able to install a new hard drive and effortlessly restore everything from his old PC in less than 4 hours. I didn't have to reinstall the OS just pop in my WHS restore disk and let it run.) My server backs up 6 PCs every night and so far there hasn't been any problems.

2. Backup my server to the cloud. Always have an offsite backup in case catastrophe strikes and your local backup is destroyed.

My portable devices are backed up once a week to my PC which is backed up to my server and then to the cloud.

I do keep local DVD backups of critical data in a fireproof safe.

Naw, I'm not paranoid much.
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Old 11-02-2010, 10:53 AM   #20
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Old 11-02-2010, 11:27 AM   #21
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This is a non-story with a misleading link. The user had defective HW and/or SW that caused him to lose data. That is everywhere there are computers.

There is no B&N deleting your ebooks story here (unlike Amazon). This is a simple crash and the user recovered his books. No lose.
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Old 11-02-2010, 12:56 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikeridr View Post
Note to self: Never buy a Nook, never use B&N.
With all due respect, that is a tad ridiculous. This episode should not, in any way shape or form, discourage anyone from considering the Nook.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikeridr
So, if this one-side of the story is correct...
It almost certainly isn't.

The guy was most likely very upset at what happened, and less than civil on the phone. Without recorded evidence, a customer who is ticked off at something like this simply is not going to offer a credible version of events.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikeridr
....If they knew (as they apparently did) that a certain percentage of their devices was defective, they should are obliged to replace the device *and* inform about a mandatory backup.
Yeah, no.

The Nook is not a content creation device, and B&N stores purchased content on their servers. I can't imagine this guy kept one, and only one, copy of anything vital on his Nook; if he did, that's his own damned fault.

In turn there isn't much reason for B&N to do a full recall because an unknown number of units wipe with an update. They should take reasonable steps to minimize such occurrences, but other than what you purchased from B&N, they are not responsible for data that you put on a Nook and fail to back up.
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Old 11-02-2010, 02:04 PM   #23
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@Kali Yuga:
You are doing most of the thread breakdown of mine fairly out of coherence here.

I stated; *if* the one-sided story was/is correct, *then*...
We do not know the B&N side, since they have not commented.
Should we here state "the silent, consents" or the opposite?
If we go for the first option, then the customer is right, and have my support.

Maybe I'm just too used to the very strong user rights in Norway, where I actually got refund for recovery of documents on a crashed hard drive.. (in addition to the new HDD I received)
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Old 11-02-2010, 02:10 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikeridr View Post
Maybe I'm just too used to the very strong user rights in Norway, where I actually got refund for recovery of documents on a crashed hard drive.. (in addition to the new HDD I received)
There was no aka Zero lost data. The original article even though slanted to the "sensational" was very specific about that. The customer lost no data.
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Old 11-02-2010, 02:12 PM   #25
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In your case Bikedr since nook isn't really meant to be a non-US, International device - I don't think Norway's Consumer Protection laws will help all that much.
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Old 11-02-2010, 02:23 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DuncanWatson View Post
This is a non-story with a misleading link. The user had defective HW and/or SW that caused him to lose data. That is everywhere there are computers.

There is no B&N deleting your ebooks story here (unlike Amazon). This is a simple crash and the user recovered his books. No lose.

I'm not sure that I understand your problem. I clearly identified that it was not, particularly, a nook problem. If you didn't read the first post perhaps this will make it clearer to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SameOldStory View Post
Attention nook owners, and others. Ereaders, like computers, need back-ups.

Yet Another Reminder That You Don't Own Your Ebooks: B&N Nook Deletes Files, Blames User

This is not another story like the one where Amazon deleted 1984 from the kindle. This is about treating ereaders as paper books where the info in them will not disappear.
The guy is blaming B&N. And while there's a little validity to his rant, it's like crying "I didn't know that I had to back up my computer".Removing DRM would be the first step. Copying the files off your computer would be the next step. After all, you have to protect against loosing your data and your reader.
That “news” article came up on a Google search the day that I posted the link. There was no intention of besmirching the nook.

The link itself is patently by an airhead. I'll sometimes post an article and point out how stupid it is. Sometimes I'll post an article and let others point out how stupid it is. Sometimes I should use very simple language and not assume to much.
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Old 11-02-2010, 02:40 PM   #27
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Quote:
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There was no intention of besmirching the nook.
OMG, you besmirched the Nook

If you get challenged to a duel, I'd be honored to stand as your second.
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Old 11-02-2010, 03:05 PM   #28
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Done. And if I'm not on time please start without me.

Actually, when I first tried the nook I did say that it wasn't very good. After an update or two, though, I changed my opinion. The last time I mentioned the nook I pumped up B&N for fixing their problems instead of just making a newer version and letting the original purchasers with a bad product.
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Old 11-02-2010, 03:15 PM   #29
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I too have a lot of personal documents on my ereader. If I thought Amazon was making copies of them, I would have a fit!!! The only way to be safe is immediate, automatic backups, including the cloud (I just have that for Calibre, on 3 computers and the cloud, Quicken is just a thumb drive.) Everything else is just gravy.
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Old 11-02-2010, 03:41 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abookreader View Post
In your case Bikedr since nook isn't really meant to be a non-US, International device - I don't think Norway's Consumer Protection laws will help all that much.
Yes and no.
As you correctly state; the Nook is not (easily) sold outside US (and I don't live in the US). So, for that part; problem solved, or even non-existing.

For the "yes" part. Any company selling to Norway, in a commercially and tax/vat-able way, actually have to comply with the Norwegian buyer/seller laws and regulations. Those, amongst quite a few other regulations, clearly states that a "regret form" has to follow the merchandise (if bought via internet) and that gives the customer a no-need-to-explain full return right at sellers cost within 14 days. If that form *is not* sent/provided, the return right is 3 months.

As I mentioned, I got a new HDD including compensation for document recovery. The disk was close to 2 years old, but still well within the "return if factory failure" d.t the MTBF of 50.000 hours, thus giving the right to return/replace the disk for a full 5 years. And that wasn't even an internet purchase.

So, what does this mean?
I have a Kindle 3. What is the life expectancy of this one? Amazon states a one-year limited warranty. If the Kindle is supposed to last "significantly longer than" 2 years, then I should be able to get a new cost free if it fails before two years. If it's supposed to last for 5 years or more, then the factory-failure-return should guarantee me a new one within 5 years of purchase.

I bought the Kindle off of a US site you say?
Yes, but Amazon charged me the Norwegian VAT which they will pay the Norwegian government. Thus, they are registered in the Norwegian VAT register, and so also underlain Norwegian regulations.
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