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Old 10-19-2010, 11:10 PM   #46
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Let me start with two disclaimers:

1 - This is my opinion; I do not presume to speak for other owners (I mention this because I was told (unnecessarily) on the Nook forum when I complained about the lack of folder organization that just because a feature was important to me does not mean it is important to everyone)

2 - I am by nature a pessimist.

I realize that we don't yet know specific details about the update yet, and may not for a while. Having said that, based on Michael-V's statement of "customized B&N Library organization", it would seem at least possible that this update will not include the (by far) most requested feature - the capability to organize the My Documents section. That is, at least, how I interpreted his post. Additionally, the fact that he dropped this like a hand grenade yesterday, and then, even after much debate, questioning and criticism from forum members, has failed to post additional clarification, denial or confirmation in that thread (even though he was on the forums as recently as four hours ago), leads me to believe that he has nothing positive to offer us.

I understand that I purchased the Nook "as is", with no guarantee that there would ever be subsequent changes to the firmware. I really like 99% of my Nook. If B&N stopped supporting it entirely, that would be a cross I would bear. However, given that they are continuing to offer updates to "deliver the features and performance enhancements most-requested from all of" us, the lack of this most requested enhancement is, quite frankly, a slap in the face. And he has the gall to title his post, "You asked, we listened". No; you didn't.

Again, I understand that they are under no obligation to offer updates. Similarly, I am under no obligation to continue to patronize their store. I will continue to buy books elsewhere and sideload them. But I will not buy books from them. When the warranty runs out on my Nook, I will softroot it. I have pre-ordered a ExoPC Windows 7 tablet, and when it arrives, I will try it as an e-reader (I expect to be underwhelmed with it, as compared to my Nook, since I often read in sunlight). When my Nook gives up the ghost, I will buy my next e-reader from another company. But I will not continue to support a company that refuses to listen to its customers. The only vote I can cast is with my dollar.

Again, this is purely conjecture and assumption at this point, and will continue to be until late next month when the update is actually released (or until more info is released). And I really hope I am wrong. If I have misinterpreted Michael-V's message, I will return to this forum and apologize to him. But I'm not very hopeful that this will be the case.
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Old 10-19-2010, 11:20 PM   #47
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@hrosvit
THIS! +1

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcooke66 View Post
As a software engineer I can tell you that many times users have requests that seem extremely obvious or simple and yet there are many technical hurdles to achieving them. I will certainly not pass judgment on the new update until I see it but I do find it fascinating that there is an impression making software and hardware work together is easy because it has been done before. I am here to tell you it is not easy and many tens of thousands of decisions go into the software that runs on a custom hardware platform such as an eReader.
Just one gentle bash (well, really just a nudge, maybe even a poke ). You'd be perfectly correct about the stuff I quoted above under ordinary circumstances. What makes the nook different is nookdevs' softroot that proved by demonstration that all those features are possible. These aren't minor hacks - it's every single crippled or disabled feature brought back to life (in the softroot). This was a long long time ago and B&N's refusal to add those features since (equal organizational capabilities for the two different libraries for example) has been clearly shown to be for reasons other than technical (to discourage people from buying from other stores or borrowing from libraries while still being able to advertise those [broken] capabilities as a leg up on the competition. The point is that these firmware problems are more strategic/corporate than technical.

Now do you see why (in the case of this specific device), users' clamoring for "new features" is really just a request (demand?) for features to be added to the official firmware that a bunch of hackers (and I use that word in its most glorious sense ) put together just weeks after its first release? If I was the guy in charge of the ereader department at B&N, I'd be deeply embarrassed by this issue and the first thing I'd do (if you ignore the higher-level decisions to keep My Docs crippled) is hire the nookdevs team and put out a 2.0 firmware that takes care of almost every single feature request from B&N's customers.

Last edited by thrawn_aj; 10-19-2010 at 11:23 PM.
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Old 10-20-2010, 06:45 AM   #48
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1. Softrooting voids your warranty, true, but as long as the device is running you can always go back to stock firmware. If the device isn't running anymore, the B&N support employees can't detect the softroot with simple means. They would have to disassemble the device to get to the internal microSD. They don't do this (to expensive).

2. Even if your warranty is void due to softrooting: this doesn't matter if your nook develops any hardware defect (e.g. cracked buttons). As an attorney astrangerhere will know.

3. Somewhere along the way your warranty will be expired. More often than not after one year. If your unrooted nook develops any software defect and resetting doesn't work your nook is a brick. Currently there are devices showing this behaviour every now and then and they are replaced under warranty. If your warranty is expired, your only chance to "unbrick" it, is to open the case to rewrite the internal microSD in your computer. If you got one of the newer nooks with soldered memory: there's always a use for a beautiful paper weight. With a rooted nook there's a small chance that the problem could be solved usind ADB.

4. If you think about softrooting: don't upgrade to 1.5 before you hear something positive from the nookdevs. B&N changed the hardware on the newer devices and the original firmware doesn't support this new components. This newer hardware comes with stock firmware 1.4.1 or 1.4.2. Downgrading to any of the previous stock versions bricks these devices irrevocable. B&N made the mistake not to check the "upgrade" firmware version to disable these destructive downgrades. I'm quite sure they'll fix this with 1.5. As downgrading to 1.0 is the first step to softroot it's perhaps not possible to root the devices anymore once stock version 1.5 is installed.
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Old 10-20-2010, 10:30 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrawn_aj View Post
@hrosvit
THIS! +1

Now do you see why (in the case of this specific device), users' clamoring for "new features" is really just a request (demand?) for features to be added to the official firmware that a bunch of hackers (and I use that word in its most glorious sense ) put together just weeks after its first release? If I was the guy in charge of the ereader department at B&N, I'd be deeply embarrassed by this issue and the first thing I'd do (if you ignore the higher-level decisions to keep My Docs crippled) is hire the nookdevs team and put out a 2.0 firmware that takes care of almost every single feature request from B&N's customers.
You are right, I was not trying to say these things cannot be done, they certainly can. I was trying to give some insight (if I have any) as to why the update contains what it does. The part I did not talk about is the reality that these features can be provided, they certainly can from a technical perspective. B&N has a little bit of the "apple" approach it seems. They appear to want control over the features when in reality loosening control would propel the platform forward faster but likely less stable. The bureaucratic and strategic nature of software development is usually the most frustrating part for the developers, who only want to build cool stuff that people like to use. When you say they should be embarrassed, the truth is the developers may be as frustrated as you and others are, knowing the possibilities.

I have always been surprised by the “Dilbertness” of reality, pointed haired bosses with no clue how things can be done and not always that interested in the potential.

Why do companies think they need to control the software so much when there is army of free developers pout there, I can only imagine it is fear and ignorance. They seem overly concerned about the liability, if you apply non supported updates the warranty is voided, I am not sure why that is an issue, but it seems to be.

Maybe this version will be easier to softroot , As I am new to the device I have not pursued that option yet, and I understand it is more difficult with newer models.
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Old 10-20-2010, 10:45 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by tubemonkey View Post
Because it has poor battery life which means I'll have to spend $30 for a spare battery.

Because it's white which means I'll have to spend $20 to get a black skin.

Now it's suddenly $200 while the Kindle (with these features) is only $140.

That's why.
Seriously, couldn’t you have saved enough for a black skin by now

The Kindle 3 wifi only comes in grey, no color choice there either, just closer to your needs.
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Old 10-20-2010, 11:07 AM   #51
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Seriously, couldn’t you have saved enough for a black skin by now

The Kindle 3 wifi only comes in grey, no color choice there either, just closer to your needs.
and the poor battery life? and the cracked bezels?

I'll wait for the update.
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Old 10-20-2010, 06:54 PM   #52
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and the poor battery life? and the cracked bezels?

I'll wait for the update.
I have heard but not confirmed that cracked bezels have been corrected in newer models, maybe someone else has a more definitive answer.

So far I have clicked the the buttons maybe 5 times to turn pages, page swipe works great!
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Old 10-20-2010, 07:58 PM   #53
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I have heard but not confirmed that cracked bezels have been corrected in newer models, maybe someone else has a more definitive answer.

So far I have clicked the the buttons maybe 5 times to turn pages, page swipe works great!
I had two nooks at one time, purchased last summer within 30 days. The first one clearly had loud, harsh buttons that would likely break after a lot of use. I modified the buttons to prevent the wear and tear and gave it to my son. The next nook had very different buttons and a much softer feel. I cannot say that the change will prevent the breakage problem, but clearly they made changes that should ameliorate the problem.

As for B&N ignoring the demands of the consumer; as soon as I read that, I ordered a JetBook Lite and I plan to give up on nook when my softrooted model wears out. Too bad they made softrooting so difficult. Even with their arrogance about unblocking the library features I would probably buy another and still be one of their customers if I could softroot. As it is, they lost me and will continue to lose people to Amazon. Once I get past the anger over their stupid business plan, at least I have options. Too bad B&N, you could have had the best of both worlds. As it is, your market share will continue to shrink.

As a very good author once said, " Goodbye and thanks for all the fish".
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Old 10-22-2010, 12:21 AM   #54
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When I heard what they were updating I became saddened because what I wanted was for organization to sub-folders of non b&n books.

I was just talking about this at work with a friend today when I mentioned that I might go back to Sony.

She complained that I just got this reader back in May after selling my last Sony reader.
I had to explain to her that it was hard to add more than 20 books on the reader because I find it tedious to go through each page looking for said books in a series among other things.

Also using the dictionary is a task in itself.

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Old 10-22-2010, 12:43 AM   #55
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I think some people need to stay with paper books because e-readers are unlikely to every fully please them
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Old 10-22-2010, 01:11 AM   #56
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I think some people need to stay with paper books because e-readers are unlikely to every fully please them
But how am I to carry my 3000 books in just one backpack? The publishers should give us all SUVs to keep our libraries in, or I'm going back to clay tablets and cuneiform!
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Old 10-22-2010, 09:15 AM   #57
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I think some people need to stay with paper books because e-readers are unlikely to every fully please them
I love paper books and yet I have been waiting for a good eReader for over 10 years. I cannot speak for others, but I don't know anyone who appreciates arrogance. The Nook could easily be made to handle large numbers of non-B&N titles. Noovdev has shown this. It is also the case that most other eReaders have already included these features, including the Kindle.

We don't expect to find the perfect eReader, we are just fed up with a company that ignores us and disables an otherwise good device. As someone elsewhere has pointed out, if Kindle ever added epub support, they would control the market.
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Old 10-22-2010, 02:07 PM   #58
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As someone elsewhere has pointed out, if Kindle ever added epub support, they would control the market.
If they did, I would probably buy one. But they didn't.
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Old 10-22-2010, 04:38 PM   #59
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I love paper books and yet I have been waiting for a good eReader for over 10 years. I cannot speak for others, but I don't know anyone who appreciates arrogance. The Nook could easily be made to handle large numbers of non-B&N titles. Noovdev has shown this. It is also the case that most other eReaders have already included these features, including the Kindle.

We don't expect to find the perfect eReader, we are just fed up with a company that ignores us and disables an otherwise good device. As someone elsewhere has pointed out, if Kindle ever added epub support, they would control the market.
People are forgetting on important fact. The Nook allows you to buy DRM books from almost any bookstore (except Amazon). Because of this B&N needs some way to make buying their books more attractive than buying those of other bookstores (they are in this business to sell their books, not e-readers). That is the reason there are more features for B&N books than for non-B&N books.

Amazon does not need to worry about this because they only allow you to buy DRM books at one place: Amazon. That is the reason they can offer the same features for all books. Nook users are probably reading a lot more non-B&N books than Kindle users are reading non-Kindle books.

So those people complaining about reading non-B&N books on the Nook should consider that if they had a Kindle they would not have been able to read those books at all.

As an aside. I do not understand why people feel they should keep hundreds or even thousands of non-B&N books on their Nook. All my non-B&N books (more than 2000) are archived on my PC. I keep some 10 to 20 non-B&N books on my Nook as the next books that I want to read.
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Old 10-22-2010, 05:23 PM   #60
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As an aside. I do not understand why people feel they should keep hundreds or even thousands of non-B&N books on their Nook. All my non-B&N books (more than 2000) are archived on my PC. I keep some 10 to 20 non-B&N books on my Nook as the next books that I want to read.
Why should non-B&N books be any different? A book is a book.
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