Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book Readers > Amazon Kindle

Notices

View Poll Results: Is worth the price difference?
Yes 14 33.33%
No 13 30.95%
I don't know 15 35.71%
Voters: 42. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-14-2010, 08:39 PM   #1
Falcao
Banned
Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,344
Karma: 1028477047
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Nueva Andalucía
Device: Sony PRS 650
Kindle vs Sony PRS 650 for PDF, is worth the difference?

This is a copy of a message I posted in the Sony forum, but I would like to know the opinion of this forum visitors.

---

After reading a lot of posts about this subject, it seems that the 650 has somewhat better support for PDF than the Kindle Wi-Fi. It's my understanding that both ereaders have zoom and pan of PDF files, but the 650 allows reflowing. I understand that if the file is not tagged then reflowing is useless. Also, I know the 650 is more expensive than the Kindle (225 vs 139 in USA).

So, I have two questions:

1. Am I right in that the only difference for PDF support is the reflowing thing?
2. That better PDF support is worth the price difference?

I don't care (for now) about reading epubs. And yes, I know a Kindle DXG is better for PDFs, but I can't justify expending $379 in a gadget (my wife would behead me ).
Falcao is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2010, 12:05 PM   #2
Pito Loco
Banned
Pito Loco doesn't litterPito Loco doesn't litter
 
Posts: 22
Karma: 198
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Dresden
Device: none
650 is more handsome than Kindle. Said that, I think the price difference with Kindle Wi-Fi is excessive. I could understand a $20-$40 difference for having epub, but not $86.
Pito Loco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2010, 12:06 PM   #3
trekchick
Lurker
trekchick can eat soup with a fork.trekchick can eat soup with a fork.trekchick can eat soup with a fork.trekchick can eat soup with a fork.trekchick can eat soup with a fork.trekchick can eat soup with a fork.trekchick can eat soup with a fork.trekchick can eat soup with a fork.trekchick can eat soup with a fork.trekchick can eat soup with a fork.trekchick can eat soup with a fork.
 
Posts: 226
Karma: 9245
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Walton, KY
Device: Sonys and Kindles and Nooks, oh my!
In addition to reflow, Sony and Kindle have a few differences in how they handle PDF files.

Most importantly, Sony supports PDF table of contents and Kindle does not. Navigating PDFs on Kindle is a chore (it involves lots of bookmarks and menu clicks). If you primarily use reference books or do other non-sequential reading, Kindle might frustrate you.

Sony supports hand-written notes and doodles, and the notes you make are available to view on your computer through the Reader application. Kindle will sync your annotations for Kindle Store purchases only. If you make a lot of notes and refer back to them, the Sony might be a better choice.

Tagged PDFs reflow beautifully, but untagged text files reflow without complication, so "useless" may be too strong of a word. There are also differences in Sony's zoom and Kindle's presets.

So is it worth the price difference? Honestly, it depends on your personal preference and reading habits. I've owned two Sonys (PRS-300: great screen, no features & PRS-900: crappy screen - great features), and in spite of its PDF shortcomings, I prefer the Kindle. True, I read PDFs on my DX and not on my K3, but my daughter reads PDFs on the 6" screen in landscape and she doesn't complain about it.
trekchick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2010, 03:05 PM   #4
curstpriest
Confused
curstpriest shares his or her toyscurstpriest shares his or her toyscurstpriest shares his or her toyscurstpriest shares his or her toyscurstpriest shares his or her toyscurstpriest shares his or her toyscurstpriest shares his or her toyscurstpriest shares his or her toyscurstpriest shares his or her toyscurstpriest shares his or her toyscurstpriest shares his or her toys
 
curstpriest's Avatar
 
Posts: 402
Karma: 5538
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Bay Area
Device: Kindle DXG
Biggest issue with kindle PDF reader is that it crops pdfs strangely, sometimes text gets cropped mid-line (only when you turn it horizontal), and K2/DX can't do bookmarks/TOC navigation yet.

The DX does PDFs well-enough if you crop them in acrobat and view them full page, but the text isn't always dark enough, though it is comfortably readable.

I would never imagine using PDF on k2/k3. Reflow of non-tagged PDFs are mangled beyond belief, even on acrobat reader 9 - so it's no surprise.

Also, you can't possibly imagine how difficult/impossible it is to read textbooks and multi-column PDFs on tiny screens (textbooks?). It's really just not worth your time.

If you are going to dish out the money for a good pdf reader, just go the full route and get the DX, or diverge and get a netbook or completely different reader, because honestly, e-ink devices are all sub-par for viewing PDFs at this point in time. They lack the refresh and smooth-scrolling capability to display the content adequately. You also don't get color =(

Sorry to say, but IPAD might actually win out here for PDF reading. Now that I think about it, PDF viewing may be about the only thing and IPAD is actually god for as of yet.

Last edited by curstpriest; 10-15-2010 at 03:08 PM.
curstpriest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2010, 03:59 AM   #5
Pito Loco
Banned
Pito Loco doesn't litterPito Loco doesn't litter
 
Posts: 22
Karma: 198
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Dresden
Device: none
It seems that Sony can do more things than expected.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trekchick View Post
In addition to reflow, Sony and Kindle have a few differences in how they handle PDF files.

Most importantly, Sony supports PDF table of contents and Kindle does not. Navigating PDFs on Kindle is a chore (it involves lots of bookmarks and menu clicks). If you primarily use reference books or do other non-sequential reading, Kindle might frustrate you.

Sony supports hand-written notes and doodles, and the notes you make are available to view on your computer through the Reader application. Kindle will sync your annotations for Kindle Store purchases only. If you make a lot of notes and refer back to them, the Sony might be a better choice.

Tagged PDFs reflow beautifully, but untagged text files reflow without complication, so "useless" may be too strong of a word. There are also differences in Sony's zoom and Kindle's presets.

So is it worth the price difference? Honestly, it depends on your personal preference and reading habits. I've owned two Sonys (PRS-300: great screen, no features & PRS-900: crappy screen - great features), and in spite of its PDF shortcomings, I prefer the Kindle. True, I read PDFs on my DX and not on my K3, but my daughter reads PDFs on the 6" screen in landscape and she doesn't complain about it.
Pito Loco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2010, 11:29 AM   #6
Barty
Wizard
Barty ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barty ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barty ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barty ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barty ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barty ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barty ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barty ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barty ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barty ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Barty ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,559
Karma: 3085507
Join Date: Sep 2010
Device: Kindle 3, PW2, iPad 3
I have an iPad and I'd thought prior to purchase I'd do a lot of Pdf reading on it. Turned out it is still kind of a chore. Oh it is very nice if you just want to flip through PDFs, but to actually read them is rather tiring. I prefer to convert to epub whenever feasible.

I can't fathom trying to read PDF on a small screen, with the slow e-ink refresh, slow processor, no multiple touch interface. Paying 90usd more for a somewhat better experience isn't all that appealing either. The DX is better bc of the size, but is expensive and the software is still lacking. You may be better off with a cheap notebook, if you can stand the backlit and pixelated screen.
Barty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2010, 11:44 AM   #7
curstpriest
Confused
curstpriest shares his or her toyscurstpriest shares his or her toyscurstpriest shares his or her toyscurstpriest shares his or her toyscurstpriest shares his or her toyscurstpriest shares his or her toyscurstpriest shares his or her toyscurstpriest shares his or her toyscurstpriest shares his or her toyscurstpriest shares his or her toyscurstpriest shares his or her toys
 
curstpriest's Avatar
 
Posts: 402
Karma: 5538
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Bay Area
Device: Kindle DXG
Kindle has 256 mb ram with 533 mhz processor, fine for rendering images/text on pdfs in a minimalist environment with no background processes.

Ipad has 256 mb ram (I think?) with 1000 mhz processor, so similar boat.

Ipad screen is a little lower on the DPI, its like 130 while the DX is at 150 and K3 160, but you get color and refresh rate in exchange for e-ink readability.

Like I said.. If the PDF is a complex textbook with diagrams/color, an E-ink display will just not cut it, otherwise a large E-ink display will do. 6-in E-ink will always be useless for PDF documents (they are made to be printed on 8.5x11 - A4/letter - paper)
curstpriest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2010, 12:26 PM   #8
Falcao
Banned
Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,344
Karma: 1028477047
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Nueva Andalucía
Device: Sony PRS 650
Quote:
Originally Posted by curstpriest View Post
Like I said.. If the PDF is a complex textbook with diagrams/color, an E-ink display will just not cut it, otherwise a large E-ink display will do. 6-in E-ink will always be useless for PDF documents (they are made to be printed on 8.5x11 - A4/letter - paper)
Most of my PDF reading are short academic papers about computer science. Some of them have graphics and/or tables and, in this case, I have seen that converting them to epub is not always a good idea. But other papers convert reasonably well.

I read in my laptop but it's tiring because the LCD screen and because I like to read in bed The DXG is expensive (my laptop cost me about $30 less!) and I have read it has even less PDF support than the new 6" kindles.

So, I think I will check a 6" ereader, and I'm trying to decide which one between the PRS-650 or the kindle is the lesser of two evils. In the end, if the chosen one turns to be useless for PDF, I can always read some fiction on it
Falcao is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2010, 12:32 PM   #9
HarryT
eBook Enthusiast
HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HarryT's Avatar
 
Posts: 64,828
Karma: 42808855
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: Kindle Voyage, iPad Mini, iPhone 4, MS Surface Pro, N7
The 650 is significantly better for PDF viewing, due to the (rather inexplicable) lack of reflow support on the Kindle.

It is incorrect to say that reflow depends on tagging of the document. Such tagging makes reflow work a lot better, but it works pretty well in most cases without it.

I would note, however, that there are devices which have significantly better PDF support than the Sony. The BeBook Neo is my personal "winner" for this.
HarryT is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2010, 03:48 PM   #10
Falcao
Banned
Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,344
Karma: 1028477047
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Nueva Andalucía
Device: Sony PRS 650
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
I would note, however, that there are devices which have significantly better PDF support than the Sony. The BeBook Neo is my personal "winner" for this.
Interesting option. What does this BeBook have of special for PDFs? Is it only available to purchase online?
Falcao is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2010, 09:09 AM   #11
cuteseal
Enthusiast
cuteseal doesn't littercuteseal doesn't litter
 
cuteseal's Avatar
 
Posts: 36
Karma: 170
Join Date: Oct 2010
Device: Kindle 3
Is PDF support the only determining factor? What about access to bookstores and other features? What percentage of your reading do you expect to do with PDFs vs other book types?

The few PDFs that I have tried on my Kindle (computer manuals, music sheets) have displayed perfectly in portrait orientation. If landscape, it starts to get a bit small on the eyes and I have to start rotating the screen or zooming in.

Word documents on the other hand have been a bit hit and miss for me.
cuteseal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2010, 10:04 AM   #12
curstpriest
Confused
curstpriest shares his or her toyscurstpriest shares his or her toyscurstpriest shares his or her toyscurstpriest shares his or her toyscurstpriest shares his or her toyscurstpriest shares his or her toyscurstpriest shares his or her toyscurstpriest shares his or her toyscurstpriest shares his or her toyscurstpriest shares his or her toyscurstpriest shares his or her toys
 
curstpriest's Avatar
 
Posts: 402
Karma: 5538
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Bay Area
Device: Kindle DXG
If that is the case, convert your PDFs to HTML, and then to EPUB/MOBI
there is some free software to convert PDF2HTML making the tables in to images that works quite nicely.

If you are using some program such as calibre/stanza or whatever it is you're doing it all wrong.

manually convert pdf => html
after you get that right, you can take the html into any format and you'll get a perfect document.

Last edited by curstpriest; 10-17-2010 at 10:07 AM.
curstpriest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2010, 02:02 PM   #13
Falcao
Banned
Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,344
Karma: 1028477047
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Nueva Andalucía
Device: Sony PRS 650
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuteseal View Post
Is PDF support the only determining factor?
The short answer is yes. I found that these days my reading is of at least 80% academic papers in PDF. I have been told that the new Kindle has reasonably support for PDF, but that the PRS 650 has better zoom features and reflow.
Falcao is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2010, 12:23 AM   #14
Falcao
Banned
Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Falcao ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,344
Karma: 1028477047
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Nueva Andalucía
Device: Sony PRS 650
Quote:
Originally Posted by curstpriest View Post
manually convert pdf => html
after you get that right, you can take the html into any format and you'll get a perfect document.
I have done that. I also have converted manually from PDF (letter page) to latex DVI to PDF (6" page). But these goes against my idea that those chores must be done by the machine and not by me . After all, I have a lot of PDFs and some of the are books with many pages.
Falcao is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2010, 09:56 PM   #15
imno007
Junior Member
imno007 began at the beginning.
 
Posts: 3
Karma: 10
Join Date: Nov 2008
Device: none
I'd say it'd be worth the difference if Sony weren't such cheapskates. As I understand it, the only accessory you get is a usb cord to plug the thing into your computer - slooow battery charge, I'm sure. Costs $30 extra for an AC adapter. And no cover, that'll set you back another $40 - but I don;t think the Kindle comes with either, does it?

Anyway, I was actually thinking about getting the Sony but it just burns me that they wouldn't even include the AC adapter.

But if you do get it and want to buy an adapter, you might as well get something like the wall and car charger from Gomadic, for the same price as the Sony one.

Last edited by imno007; 10-18-2010 at 10:01 PM.
imno007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
PRS-650: PDF nur leere Seiten ??? SkyDream Sony Reader 17 12-03-2010 09:29 AM
Help! Kindle 3 vs Sony PRS 650 UbiquitousPhoton Which one should I buy? 28 11-10-2010 02:09 PM
Kindle vs PRS 650 for PDF, worth the difference? Falcao Sony Reader 12 10-18-2010 01:36 PM
K3 or PRS-650 for PDF viewing? zeb Amazon Kindle 8 09-22-2010 03:06 PM
PRS-650 or K3 for PDF viewing? zeb Sony Reader 3 09-22-2010 02:27 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:22 PM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.