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Old 10-13-2010, 11:56 AM   #1
Steven Lyle Jordan
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Lightbulb Do ebooks need production notes up front?

This question comes to mind after I just read an ebook from Harper Collins, in which the copy was scanned and OCR'd from existing print, the document was not proofed, and as a result, literally hundreds of spelling, format and punctuations errors appeared, and the end of the book was actually missing (it literally stopped in mid-sentence, and jumped straight to text of ads for other books... none of which do I have any desire to buy now).

It occurred to me that there can be a huge difference between a document prepared from the original digital text, and a document scanned and OCR'd. There is also a huge difference between either document before and after proofing. Either way, the result can be a good book, or a bunch of text that makes you want to punch out the first person you come across.

In the interest of improving accountability... and at giving readers a hint of what to expect, before they buy that often-nonrefundable ebook... I believe ebooks should come with text, in the front along with the ISBN, copyright and production notices, something that specifies whether they were scanned or produced from original digital files... and specific info about proofing (maybe not a person's name, but at least an office or department, and a date, that confirms that proofing was done.

This way, the consumer has some information to go by, for instance, passing on a book that is specified as scanned, or one that does not include proofing info. Or, if a badly-proofed book is bought, the consumer has the written information in the book to take back to the publisher and demand reparation. As that information would be in the front, it would be included in most previews prior to purchase, giving the consumer ample time to check the book's production credentials, and pass on the book.

Without something like this, the consumer is helpless to determine the overall quality of an ebook (some of which are cleaned up in the first 2 chapters, in order to look good in the preview, and not beyond that), and has little recourse except--as I plan to do from now on--to refrain from buying ebooks if there is any chance that it was scanned and OCR'd.

Until there is a reliable measure of quality from ebook files, I will not be comfortable buying a single ebook unless I can confirm its individual production credentials... and the industry will suffer as long as this lax quality without accountability or recourse continues.

Examples:

Copyright 2010 Right Brane ePublications.
Ninth Printing: May 2010
Ebook compiled from scanned source of Ninth printing
Proofed by Right Brane ePublications Proofing Team, August 2010

Copyright 2010 Right Brane ePublications.
Ninth Printing: May 2010
Ebook compiled from original digital source of Ninth printing
Proofed at Right Brane ePublications, August 2010

(I plan to add notes to this effect to all my publications.)
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Old 10-13-2010, 12:03 PM   #2
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Can you point to an example of a book that has been cleaned up in its first few chapters, so the sample looks OK, but the rest of it is poorly formatted? Personally I've never come across such a thing, and would regard it as dishonesty.

Your idea is sensible. Have you proposed it to the big name publishers?
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Old 10-13-2010, 12:07 PM   #3
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Actually, Steve, this was somewhat the topic of my blog article today, Authors and eBook Problems: Expanding The Net of Responsibility. I think authors with traditional publishers need to include in their contracts review-before-release rights that let them review all ebook formats before releasing them for consumer consumption. I think both authors and publishers need to share responsibility for assuring that a released ebook is of at least reasonable production quality.

Two recent releases from TOR/Tom Doherty/Macmillan -- Brandon Sanderson's The Way of Kings and David Weber's Out of the Dark -- sorely needed such a review before release and these ebooks had to have been created from the electronic files used for the pbooks, not from OCRd copy. I discussed the problems in these books in On Books: Brandon Sanderson and David Weber — 1 Up, 1 Down and The Problem Is: Publishers Don’t Read eBooks!
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Old 10-13-2010, 12:22 PM   #4
Steven Lyle Jordan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
Can you point to an example of a book that has been cleaned up in its first few chapters, so the sample looks OK, but the rest of it is poorly formatted? Personally I've never come across such a thing, and would regard it as dishonesty.
Seems to me the last 3 ebooks I've bought--Jack McDevitt's Deepsix, George R.R. Martin's Wild Cards: Death Draws Five, and Wild Cards: Suicide Kings, all looked good in the samples (though I may not have read the entire sample), but after a significant way into the book, suddenly exploded in spelling and punctuation errors throughout the text. I have a fourth McDevitt ebook, so far unread, that I fully expect to find the same.

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Your idea is sensible. Have you proposed it to the big name publishers?
This is the first place I've suggested this idea. I wouldn't expect any publisher to respond if I did write them. Only if they received a groundswell of responses from their readers that, like me, they have no intention of buying any more of their ebooks without such assurance of proofing and quality on their pages, clearly presented at preview time to guide buying, would I expect any publisher to try this. And it's no good unless it's legally binding, and enough to demand refunds of purchases that clearly fail basic proofing efforts (which would scare most publishers away from doing it, right off).

Last edited by Steven Lyle Jordan; 10-13-2010 at 12:25 PM.
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Old 10-13-2010, 12:49 PM   #5
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I usually add some explanatory text in the ebooks I create, something like:

Quote:
This e-book was created for MobileRead.

The text is based on the Project Gutenberg [PG] version of "Gulliver's Travels" (EText-No. 829). The passage about the rebellion of Lindalino, at the end of Chapter III, Part III was added. Different editions available at Google Books were used to check formatting and correct a number of errors. This e-book does not reproduce any particular printed edition, but has gone through its own editing process.
It's not exactly the same case, but if I can do that, "real" publishers could also do a similar thing.
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Old 10-13-2010, 12:54 PM   #6
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I've seen a number of books that were relatively well proofread in the first half or two-thirds of the book, then the number of errors crept up. It's like the proofreader got bored or something.

I always say that first, they should run spell-check, then run a script to check for things like odd characters (slashes and percent signs are not common in novels, for example, but show up in scanned text all the time), spaces around hyphens, etc. That would help them catch a lot of errors. They could enter a list of proper names used in the book to exclude them from spell-checking.
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Old 10-13-2010, 01:00 PM   #7
Steven Lyle Jordan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by susan_cassidy View Post
I've seen a number of books that were relatively well proofread in the first half or two-thirds of the book, then the number of errors crept up. It's like the proofreader got bored or something.
I don't think boredom has anything to do with it (says cynical me). It can only be to get it past preview stages.

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I always say that first, they should run spell-check, then run a script to check for things like odd characters (slashes and percent signs are not common in novels, for example, but show up in scanned text all the time), spaces around hyphens, etc. That would help them catch a lot of errors. They could enter a list of proper names used in the book to exclude them from spell-checking.
True: A great deal of the errors I saw in Deepsix could have been fixed with a few find-and-replace passes, they were that common. But others were random spelling, formatting and punctuation errors that would've required a manual pass to find and correct.

BTW: Barnes & Noble just refunded my money on the book, after my complaint to them last night. Does that mean they'll pull the book, or that Harper Collins will be notified to proof and resubmit it? We'll see...

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Old 10-13-2010, 05:32 PM   #8
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I think it is a fantastic idea. However, I don't see it happening. At least not until ebook sales reach or surpass pbook sales. Publishers will treat ebooks as the bastard child until that bastard child takes them by the throat and forces them to respect 'him'.
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Old 10-13-2010, 06:26 PM   #9
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I think it is a fantastic idea. However, I don't see it happening. At least not until ebook sales reach or surpass pbook sales. Publishers will treat ebooks as the bastard child until that bastard child takes them by the throat and forces them to respect 'him'.
Agreed!
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Old 10-13-2010, 07:58 PM   #10
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Also agreed... unfortunately. Maybe if the indies and small pubs begin using it, and the public takes notice of the difference in quality, it will shame the big pubs into it.

Of course, they'll probably find some legalese way to say they did, when they really didn't...
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Old 10-13-2010, 09:19 PM   #11
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Also agreed... unfortunately. Maybe if the indies and small pubs begin using it, and the public takes notice of the difference in quality, it will shame the big pubs into it.

Of course, they'll probably find some legalese way to say they did, when they really didn't...
Just what I was thinking. A lot of people rant and rave about indie published books being full of errors and only wanting to read the vetted traditionally pubbed books for that reason. Wouldn't it be ironic if that perception flip-flopped due to lazy, sloppy work in the rush to get those backlist titles up there?

--Maria
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Old 10-13-2010, 10:16 PM   #12
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Definitely write to HarperCollins, to the production department. What was the book?

I am especially curious about when the book was originally published. I would think that most current ebooks would be produced from the same files as the physical book, so there shouldn't be any difference in errors (except possibly formatting errors).

Singling out the proofreader for censure is a bad idea.
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Old 10-13-2010, 11:00 PM   #13
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Definitely write to HarperCollins, to the production department. What was the book?
The book was Deepsix, by Jack McDevitt. I did contact Harper Collins through their site feedback line. More importantly, so did Mr. McDevitt, after I emailed him to inform him of his sabotaged product. They may not care about my complaints (they haven't responded to me), but they may listen to their author. Maybe.

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I am especially curious about when the book was originally published. I would think that most current ebooks would be produced from the same files as the physical book, so there shouldn't be any difference in errors (except possibly formatting errors).
Copyright for the book, and the ebook, is listed as 2001. Somehow, I doubt this ebook was created nine years ago: It was scanned from a 2001 printed copy, probably within the last year.

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Singling out the proofreader for censure is a bad idea.
Only for the proofreader... or whoever told them to do a half-assed job. And I'm sure I'm not the only one who remembers the phrase "Pride in ownership."
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Old 10-13-2010, 11:26 PM   #14
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The book was Deepsix, by Jack McDevitt. I did contact Harper Collins through their site feedback line. More importantly, so did Mr. McDevitt, after I emailed him to inform him of his sabotaged product. They may not care about my complaints (they haven't responded to me), but they may listen to their author. Maybe.

Copyright for the book, and the ebook, is listed as 2001. Somehow, I doubt this ebook was created nine years ago: It was scanned from a 2001 printed copy, probably within the last year.

Only for the proofreader... or whoever told them to do a half-assed job. And I'm sure I'm not the only one who remembers the phrase "Pride in ownership."
Interesting. For a 2001 book, I would have expected HC to have a digital file to work from.

It's all about the deadlines. It's possible that a proofreader was an idiot who did a lousy job; it's also possible--and probably more likely--that some higher-up set an impossible deadline for delivery that didn't allow for adequate (or any!) proofing. The proofreader is low man on the totem pole and is the one whose deadline gets squeezed.
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Old 10-14-2010, 01:25 AM   #15
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It occurs to me that for Kindle books, a one-star review with the reason cited on Amazon's website might have some effect.
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