iLiad GIMP for iLiad?

nekokami · 11-13-2006, 08:57 AM

Would it be reasonable to port GIMP to iLiad? Looks like it's possible to get the WACOM support in GIMP:

http://wiki.gimp.org/gimp/UserFaq#he...74c7868bb62e78

The drivers are there, so it looks like it's just a compile option on GTK -- assuming iLiad doesn't have GTK already. I suppose this still wouldn't support the pressure-sensitive features of the tablet, but it would be nice to have a "real" graphics program on there, given that the graphics tablet has got to be a significant chunk of the cost of the hardware.

(I know we still don't have stylus calibration, but iRex are promising it "real soon now" according to a recent post in their forum.)

scotty1024 · 11-13-2006, 11:20 AM

iRex appears to be using the Philips UCB1300 chip to drive the Wacom tablet. That chip is accessed via the i2c bus attached to the PXA-255 and so far I haven't noticed much in the way of a "standard interface" to it.

I can only shudder at the thought of GIMP running on a 16 gray level display... I'd have to rank this one as a "not likely worth the effort" port.

nekokami · 11-13-2006, 12:51 PM

I suppose similar problems would also apply to Krita? http://koffice.org/krita/

Other possibilities (from http://software.newsforge.com/articl...id=131&tid=125):

* Inkscape [inkscape.org] has pressure sensitivity support for the caligraphy tool and the upcoming node sculpting.
* SharpConstruct [sourceforge.net] , a 3D sculpting modeler.
* mtPaint [sourceforge.net], a simple graphics editor mainly for pixel pushing.
* MyPaint [ee.ethz.ch] and Gogh [goghproject.com] are both drawing applications built around pressure sensitivity.

I couldn't actually find anything in the mtPaint docs which indicated support for pressure sensitivity, which is too bad, as it seems like a light-weight app which might fit on the iLiad. Maybe MyPaint would work (if it's possible to get the pressure data into it).

arivero · 11-13-2006, 02:16 PM

neko, I am curious: does pressure sensitivity translates to distance sensitivity when you are using the side button of a Wacon pen?

scotty1024 · 11-13-2006, 03:14 PM

Pressure sensitivity has to do with sensing how hard you are pressing the tip of the stylus against the display. In graphic art tools such as GIMP and Photoshop this information is generally used to control the size/shape of the tool being worked with.

Press hard get a fat stroke, press lightly get a narrow stroke.

The iLiad is more of a Gnome than a KOffice machine but of course one can just compile up lots of KOffice and include that with the stand alone app.

But I think all of these apps are not going to recognize the Wacom in the iLiad. (I went sniffing around because I wanted the right click button on my Cross Stylus to work...)

nekokami · 11-13-2006, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scotty1024

But I think all of these apps are not going to recognize the Wacom in the iLiad. (I went sniffing around because I wanted the right click button on my Cross Stylus to work...)

Well, phooey.

What's the point of having a high-priced Wacom screen on there if nothing can use it? They might as well have used a simple touch-sensitive screen. (Other than the fact that the Wacom doesn't register hand pressure or other stray bumps, which are kind of a nuisance on ordinary touch-sensitive screens, but I don't know as the difference would be worth hundreds of US$ or Euros or whatever.)

iRex has said they would eventually get the pressure sensitivity working, but I have to wonder what they mean by that. I know not everyone wants to sketch on these things, but a picture of someone sketching a diagram is in their promotional material.

I guess I'll ask if pressure sensitivity access will ever be part of the SDK or whatever. I'll probably get an answer like, "Yes, we plan to support this in the future."

scotty1024 · 11-13-2006, 03:26 PM

Personally I wouldn't be surprised if they were "honest" and said something like "The iLiad's hardware doesn't support pressure sensitivity" which seems to be their code phrase for "We can't figure out how to make it work."

One of these days they'll release the kernel sources or I'll get done compiling a bit compatible kernel.

NatCh · 11-13-2006, 03:27 PM

They also said they'd get the suspend working, and they can always take that picture out of their promo stuff, they've done that sort of thing before.

CommanderROR · 11-13-2006, 04:22 PM

@scotty1024

What makes you think they will ever offer their Kernel sources? If they aren't planning to offer root access, then what would be the point? Or am I misunderstanding something here?

scotty1024 · 11-13-2006, 05:05 PM

The entire kernel is GPL'd, they are legally required to make it available.

They really should do us all a favor and just post the kernel sources now. The sooner they post 'em the sooner I can figure out how to get deep sleep working. Poking config switches and compiling the kernel to do binary diff's is just wasting my valuable time. Time that I could have spent fixing the kernel.

CommanderROR · 11-13-2006, 05:23 PM

Ah right...because they are using OpenEmbedded as base?
I really don't get this whole "we will release it sometime" stuff...they are not only getting us all upset, they are hurting their own interests, commiting a crime AND making us mad...tsts...

vranghel · 11-13-2006, 07:51 PM

The thing i dont understand is how pressure sensitivity is supposed to work.

The iLiad has a rigid screen so no matter how hard you push (short of breaking it) you cannot make an indentation in the screen. So how does the wacom register the pressure that it is applied to the screen?

NatCh · 11-13-2006, 08:12 PM

Inside the stylus maybe? (guessing -- I don't have an actual clue either

)

scotty1024 · 11-13-2006, 09:26 PM

The Wacom works by emitting a RF signal that provides power to the stylus, this is why Wacom's are not low power devices and hence why the iLiad tries to keep it turned off.

The stylus uses the energy provided to emit a signal back to the pad. It can encode several pieces of information in the signal it sends back: tip pressure, eraser pressure, right button pressed. THe pad has wires running vertically and horizontally that allow it to detect where the emitted signal comes from. This allows determination of X, Y position.

The stylus can transmit up to 1 inch from the surface. This is referred to as "hovering" and is used in various ways to provide even more features. Vista for example uses them to provide "pen flicks" to scroll windows etc...

Right now iRex has barely managed to get the X, Y part working. And with the lack of pen calibration some would argue they haven't even fully accomplished that task.

scotty1024 · 11-13-2006, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CommanderROR

Ah right...because they are using OpenEmbedded as base?
I really don't get this whole "we will release it sometime" stuff...they are not only getting us all upset, they are hurting their own interests, commiting a crime AND making us mad...tsts...

Actually because they are using Linux as the base.

The really sad part is we'll get these things working just in time for them to be obsoleted by the replacement units. Which may be why iRex is giving up on so many features and being so close mouthed. The iLiad was a big learning experience and the iLiad 2 will fix everything they botched on the iLiad?

Maybe the source code cleaning it to remove comments like "This feature doesn't work because of the UCB 1300 problem, we really should have used the UCB1400 instead of the UCB1300..."

11-13-2006, 08:57 AM	#1
nekokami fruminous edugeek Posts: 6,745 Karma: 551260 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Northeast US Device: iPad, eBw 1150	GIMP for iLiad? Would it be reasonable to port GIMP to iLiad? Looks like it's possible to get the WACOM support in GIMP: http://wiki.gimp.org/gimp/UserFaq#he...74c7868bb62e78 The drivers are there, so it looks like it's just a compile option on GTK -- assuming iLiad doesn't have GTK already. I suppose this still wouldn't support the pressure-sensitive features of the tablet, but it would be nice to have a "real" graphics program on there, given that the graphics tablet has got to be a significant chunk of the cost of the hardware. (I know we still don't have stylus calibration, but iRex are promising it "real soon now" according to a recent post in their forum.)

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11-13-2006, 11:20 AM	#2
scotty1024 Banned Posts: 1,300 Karma: 1479 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Peoples Republic of Washington Device: Reader / iPhone / Librie / Kindle	iRex appears to be using the Philips UCB1300 chip to drive the Wacom tablet. That chip is accessed via the i2c bus attached to the PXA-255 and so far I haven't noticed much in the way of a "standard interface" to it. I can only shudder at the thought of GIMP running on a 16 gray level display... I'd have to rank this one as a "not likely worth the effort" port.

11-13-2006, 12:51 PM	#3
nekokami fruminous edugeek Posts: 6,745 Karma: 551260 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Northeast US Device: iPad, eBw 1150	I suppose similar problems would also apply to Krita? http://koffice.org/krita/ Other possibilities (from http://software.newsforge.com/articl...id=131&tid=125): * Inkscape [inkscape.org] has pressure sensitivity support for the caligraphy tool and the upcoming node sculpting. * SharpConstruct [sourceforge.net] , a 3D sculpting modeler. * mtPaint [sourceforge.net], a simple graphics editor mainly for pixel pushing. * MyPaint [ee.ethz.ch] and Gogh [goghproject.com] are both drawing applications built around pressure sensitivity. I couldn't actually find anything in the mtPaint docs which indicated support for pressure sensitivity, which is too bad, as it seems like a light-weight app which might fit on the iLiad. Maybe MyPaint would work (if it's possible to get the pressure data into it).

11-13-2006, 02:16 PM	#4
arivero Guru Posts: 607 Karma: 2157 Join Date: Oct 2005 Device: NCR3125, Nokia 770,...	neko, I am curious: does pressure sensitivity translates to distance sensitivity when you are using the side button of a Wacon pen?

11-13-2006, 03:14 PM	#5
scotty1024 Banned Posts: 1,300 Karma: 1479 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Peoples Republic of Washington Device: Reader / iPhone / Librie / Kindle	Pressure sensitivity has to do with sensing how hard you are pressing the tip of the stylus against the display. In graphic art tools such as GIMP and Photoshop this information is generally used to control the size/shape of the tool being worked with. Press hard get a fat stroke, press lightly get a narrow stroke. The iLiad is more of a Gnome than a KOffice machine but of course one can just compile up lots of KOffice and include that with the stand alone app. But I think all of these apps are not going to recognize the Wacom in the iLiad. (I went sniffing around because I wanted the right click button on my Cross Stylus to work...)

11-13-2006, 03:26 PM	#7
scotty1024 Banned Posts: 1,300 Karma: 1479 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Peoples Republic of Washington Device: Reader / iPhone / Librie / Kindle	Personally I wouldn't be surprised if they were "honest" and said something like "The iLiad's hardware doesn't support pressure sensitivity" which seems to be their code phrase for "We can't figure out how to make it work." One of these days they'll release the kernel sources or I'll get done compiling a bit compatible kernel.

11-13-2006, 03:27 PM	#8
NatCh Gizmologist Posts: 11,615 Karma: 929550 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3	They also said they'd get the suspend working, and they can always take that picture out of their promo stuff, they've done that sort of thing before.

11-13-2006, 04:22 PM	#9
CommanderROR eink fanatic Posts: 2,022 Karma: 4924 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Germany Device: STAReBOOK, iRex Iliad, Sony 505, Kindle 2	@scotty1024 What makes you think they will ever offer their Kernel sources? If they aren't planning to offer root access, then what would be the point? Or am I misunderstanding something here?

11-13-2006, 05:05 PM	#10
scotty1024 Banned Posts: 1,300 Karma: 1479 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Peoples Republic of Washington Device: Reader / iPhone / Librie / Kindle	The entire kernel is GPL'd, they are legally required to make it available. They really should do us all a favor and just post the kernel sources now. The sooner they post 'em the sooner I can figure out how to get deep sleep working. Poking config switches and compiling the kernel to do binary diff's is just wasting my valuable time. Time that I could have spent fixing the kernel.

11-13-2006, 05:23 PM	#11
CommanderROR eink fanatic Posts: 2,022 Karma: 4924 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Germany Device: STAReBOOK, iRex Iliad, Sony 505, Kindle 2	Ah right...because they are using OpenEmbedded as base? I really don't get this whole "we will release it sometime" stuff...they are not only getting us all upset, they are hurting their own interests, commiting a crime AND making us mad...tsts...

11-13-2006, 07:51 PM	#12
vranghel Addict Posts: 285 Karma: 10 Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Vancouver, Canada Device: Proud Iliad owner	The thing i dont understand is how pressure sensitivity is supposed to work. The iLiad has a rigid screen so no matter how hard you push (short of breaking it) you cannot make an indentation in the screen. So how does the wacom register the pressure that it is applied to the screen?

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11-13-2006, 08:12 PM	#13
NatCh Gizmologist Posts: 11,615 Karma: 929550 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3	Inside the stylus maybe? (guessing -- I don't have an actual clue either )

11-13-2006, 09:26 PM	#14
scotty1024 Banned Posts: 1,300 Karma: 1479 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Peoples Republic of Washington Device: Reader / iPhone / Librie / Kindle	The Wacom works by emitting a RF signal that provides power to the stylus, this is why Wacom's are not low power devices and hence why the iLiad tries to keep it turned off. The stylus uses the energy provided to emit a signal back to the pad. It can encode several pieces of information in the signal it sends back: tip pressure, eraser pressure, right button pressed. THe pad has wires running vertically and horizontally that allow it to detect where the emitted signal comes from. This allows determination of X, Y position. The stylus can transmit up to 1 inch from the surface. This is referred to as "hovering" and is used in various ways to provide even more features. Vista for example uses them to provide "pen flicks" to scroll windows etc... Right now iRex has barely managed to get the X, Y part working. And with the lack of pen calibration some would argue they haven't even fully accomplished that task.