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Old 06-07-2011, 10:53 PM   #1
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Strategies for reading the classics?

Following some time with the Harvard Classics this week, I have become very interested in reading more of the 'great works' out there. I know that, even though I was an English major and am fairly 'well-educated' in the traditional sense, there are many gaps in my knowledge. Added to that, too, has been my disappointment with some of the 'commercial' modern books I have read lately. They have been expensive, riddled with typos and errors (moreso than previously!) and just---forgettable. I think I am looking more for an experience of being 'transported' somehow, and of bettering my mind and of understanding where our literary culture has come from.

So, with best intentions, I loaded up all the Harvard Classics onto my Kindle, and...well, it's been a mixed bag to say the least. I've loved the poetry, once I figured out it actually looked okay on the smaller font setting. I've enjoyed some of the drama too. But then, I always have enjoyed Shakespeare, so between that and Palgrave's poetry selections, this hasn't been so much 'expanding my mind' as it's been 'wallowing in my English major comfort zone.'

So then I tried some Plato. Blah. I tried Benjamin Franklin. And...blah again. None of this is resonating with me. So I sampled a few Kindle titles on 'how to read the classics' and got the following tidbits:

- Reading the 'classics' is not worthwhile unless you schedule it (no more than 4 times a week to avoid over-tiring yourself) and journal about it

- Also, you should read everything three times (even the Cervantes? Damn!) Because that's the 'truvium.'

- Also, you should read chronologically. As in, start with the BCE era, and finish ALL of it before you are allowed to move on.

- And if you haven't read the Bible yet, do that first or else you'll be screwed later.

- And finally, understand that all of this is futile anyway because it's all about dead white guys and unless you read women and Hispanic writers, you lack a true global perspective.

So obviously, reading for 'fun' I could just read the poetry and the Shakespeare and the occasional Dickens and Conan Doyle and tra la la. But if I want to read for 'education' then does that really mean I have to slog through Plato if I don't really want to? And how important is it to read chronologically? Can't I just pick something interesting and see where it takes me?

I welcome your thoughts. Obviously, I am quite prepared to be less educated and choose more enjoyable books But if I do want to incorporate some necessary but less 'fun' books, I would like some techniques for doing so effectively without turning this into a slog--or a job.
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Old 06-07-2011, 11:13 PM   #2
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I like to read books too, but I understand that everything is derivative all the way back to before the nothingness. Just knowing that the classics are there, either stored locally on my SD card or somewhere in the cloud is usually enough. The ideas presented in the classics have replicated on down to everyone, virus like, as is the word's way. We don't really have to "read" the classics to understand them.

Is there a digested version of the classics available? lol, there's probably hundreds!
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Old 06-07-2011, 11:46 PM   #3
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But if I want to read for 'education' then does that really mean I have to slog through Plato if I don't really want to?
No, you just need to know the important things he wrote that influenced later people who then also influenced people, and you can get that from a good commentary on Plato or SparkNotes or whatever.

Mind you, sometimes some classics will look boring because of bad translations, so you might want to find another version and try again. But sometimes works just simply don't appeal and you shouldn't force yourself.

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And how important is it to read chronologically? Can't I just pick something interesting and see where it takes me?
Sure, and I encourage that. James Burke's excellent Connections series of history/technology programs jumps back and forth all the time.

As far as chronology goes, really mostly if later works were significantly influenced by earlier works (although sometimes it's more interesting to read the later works first and then go back and look at the earlier works and think "a-ha! so that's where it comes from!") and you want to see things unfold in progressive steps.

I do advocate for reading stuff from a certain culture/time period together if you've the taste for it.

It can help you get a better grasp on the viewpoint of the time if, say, you also read Marlowe and Milton when you read Shakespeare, and you'll be getting context for stuff you might not quite understand from a single source from multiple sources instead, which might help you figure out what it means when writers use a certain out-of-date slang phrase or reference a common cultural event of the times.

And also regarding commentaries, a good modern non-fiction book or journal article can also help if you read it alongside the classics you're looking at. There's plenty of stuff that you might not normally "get" that an expert on the subject matter can point out, and it's nice to know about the background setting and influences on a particular work, that might lead you to looking up some other more obscure works that inspired it.

By the way, I recommend Barnes & Noble's B&N Classics Editions of annotated texts with introductions and footnotes and mini-essays by scholarly types. They're very nicely done and well worth taking a look at.

Just over a dozen of them are permanently available free: Pride & Prejudice, Dracula, and Little Women are available DRM-free when you sign up an account at their website and you don't need to give them personal info.

And you can get the extra 12 when you download the NookStudy app from their website, and B&N seem to have recently removed certain restrictions on non-US customers getting some of the free books (but you'll still need a credit card for their website for the DRM-scheme).

The freebie selection includes a mix of poetry, novels, and prose non-fiction that spans millenia (Beowulf and Canterbury Tales are there, as well as F. Scott Fitzgerald) and they've got a copy of Plato's Republic that you might find an easier read (or at least derive value from the essay that goes along with it).

If it turns out you like the series, they normally only cost $1.99 and B&N sometimes give them away free as promo during holidays and such, which is how I acquired over 100 of the things to slowly read my way through.

Hope this helps.
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Old 06-08-2011, 12:10 AM   #4
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I read a book called The Well Educated Mind: A Guide to the Classical Education You Never Had by Susan W. Bauer which describes how to read the classics on your own for your own education. She suggests reading a chapter at a time and then writing a one to two sentence summary of the material. Supposedly, the small summaries then form the basis for an outline to help you analyze the works. And she also recommends reading the work more than once.

I agree with a previous poster that the B&N classics are really great because of the essays and annotations that are included. I found them very helpful when reading the classics that I have. (And currently there is a sale, if you buy 2, you get the 3rd free, that is how I have gotten most of my B&N classics)
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Old 06-08-2011, 03:08 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by ATDrake View Post

By the way, I recommend Barnes & Noble's B&N Classics Editions of annotated texts with introductions and footnotes and mini-essays by scholarly types. They're very nicely done and well worth taking a look at.

Just over a dozen of them are permanently available free: Pride & Prejudice, Dracula, and Little Women are available DRM-free when you sign up an account at their website and you don't need to give them personal info.

And you can get the extra 12 when you download the NookStudy app from their website, and B&N seem to have recently removed certain restrictions on non-US customers getting some of the free books (but you'll still need a credit card for their website for the DRM-scheme).

The freebie selection includes a mix of poetry, novels, and prose non-fiction that spans millenia (Beowulf and Canterbury Tales are there, as well as F. Scott Fitzgerald) and they've got a copy of Plato's Republic that you might find an easier read (or at least derive value from the essay that goes along with it).

If it turns out you like the series, they normally only cost $1.99 and B&N sometimes give them away free as promo during holidays and such, which is how I acquired over 100 of the things to slowly read my way through.

Hope this helps.
Are their free books all DRM free? Would be nice to be able to convert them to read on Kindle if I find one that I want there that isn't here at MR.
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Old 06-08-2011, 03:15 AM   #6
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Are their free books all DRM free?
No, that depends on the author/publisher because apparently they can set DRM-free or not. Samhain who gives away a lot of free erotic romance every month has their books DRM-free, but you can't tell from looking at the product page like you can with Kindle books.

So only the 3 giveaway-with-account-signup B&N Classics titles are DRM-free, I'm afraid. But B&N's DRM is pretty easy to liberate, if you're so inclined.

(And it looks like they've jacked up the regular selling price to $3.99 each sometime in the last month or so.

I hope they reconsider this decision. Or at least run another few holiday freebie giveaway promotions.)
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Old 06-08-2011, 03:35 AM   #7
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I don't think you have to read everything three times. That is confusing Lewis Carroll's dictum in the Hunting of the Snark

Quote:
Just the place for a Snark! I have said it twice:
That alone should encourage the crew.
Just the place for a Snark! I have said it thrice:
What I tell you three times is true.
and the mediaeval Trivium, which was a group of three subjects initially studied towards a degree.

Mind you, when I was an undergraduate I had a lecturer whose method was to say everything three times:

Quote:
First I tell you what I am going to say;
then I say it;
then I tell you what I just said.
You are an English major. Your question would have greater clarity if you explained what you studied at university. The gaps would then be apparent. Can you read Old English? Middle English? How are your Latin and Ancient Greek? Are you interested in Philosophy? "The classics" can mean different things to different people.

Obviously if you read Dickens you are not put off by length and prolixity. This is a big plus over many people who are unaccustomed to the writing of previous ages.
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Old 06-08-2011, 03:48 AM   #8
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Strategies for reading the classics?
Avoid.
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Old 06-08-2011, 03:52 AM   #9
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The classics are the books you always want to have read.

(Note that you don't want to read them-- you want to have read them.)
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Old 06-08-2011, 07:24 AM   #10
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Thanks for the thoughts, everyone. I am in Canada so have avoided B&N

ATDrake, good point about the chronology. Not vital, as you say, but helpful perhaps for certain subjects. I suppose I'd go at the non-fiction that way.

Purple Fishy, I did check out the Kindle excerpt of the book you mention, but it was over $15 so I didn't get it. I got a book called Book Smart instead which has several suggestions for each month of the year. She suggests you can just pick one book a month and start from there.

DMB, my university degree was structured in such a way that there were ten categories, roughly corresponding to time periods, and they were put into groupings. You had to take X number of classes from each of the general areas. For example, one of the groupings was Beowulf/Chaucer/Shakespeare/The Restoration and you had to take two of the four. So I managed to take Shakespeare and The Restoration (which was the most boring class I ever took) and managed to avoid Old English all together. I also enjoyed the Victorians, so I took the poetry class from that era and managed to avoid the Romantic Poets, who struck me as overly flowery We also had one obligatory theory course, and I believe there was some Plato there, but the only part of it that stuck with me was Aristotle.

Just for fun, I did a little chart placing all the classics I've read (and also the modern books that I feel might someday BE classics) into chronological order. Link. There are a few I didn't put on there---I've read the other Bronte stuff, for instance, but didn't find it as good as the ones I listed---but it should give you a general idea of my tastes and of where some of the gaps might be. As you can see, it's heavy on the 1800s and 1900s, and there isn't much before that except for Gulliver's Travels and Shakespeare. I didn't list most of the poetry, but I'm pretty comfortable and familiar with anything in the 1800-1900 era.

I have just started 'Inferno' by Dante---the Harvard Classics one was very dense and flowery, but a book I'm reading had an excerpt that was very different, so I found a different translation (the Longfellow one) and am finding it better going. I also picked up the Bible in One Year book for $2.99 for the Kindle.
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Old 06-08-2011, 08:45 AM   #11
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I've been trying to "read" some classics by downloading free audio versions from Librivox.
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Old 06-08-2011, 09:14 AM   #12
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I've been trying to "read" some classics by downloading free audio versions from Librivox.
Same here. Right now, I'm doing H Rider Haggard and his Allan Quatermain series (King Solomon's Mines, et al).

LibriVox is great for the free stuff. I download them to my iPod touch and then carry it from room to room to listen to the books (via speaker docks).
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Old 06-08-2011, 09:50 AM   #13
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I think it was Mark Twain said the classics are the books you want to have read, but do not want to read. I am assuming you are referring to classic literature, as opposed to philosophy, politics, history and other non-fiction works.

I love reading, and would like to read the classics, but I find that they are dry and intensely boring most of the time. Instead, I read Shakespeare and Sherlock Holmes and am content with the fact that if I reconfigure the classics I have read (namely Shakespeare's plays), they will cover all of the plot points in the dull books I have skipped.

Ancient Greeks mastered the arts of oratory, rhetoric and philosophy, but the idea of writing a novel, and in particular an entertaining one, was not invented and mastered until much later. Perhaps that is why I enjoy reading ancient history but not "classic" literature. Even when I know the historic and political import of a given book, for example the deep themes in Frankenstein, I still struggled to get through that book, and cannot recommend it.

I agree that to get through the classics, you have to book time, keep a journal, and basically approach it as a second job. I wish you well with your endeavor - please let us know how it goes.
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Old 06-08-2011, 09:50 AM   #14
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The classics are the books you always want to have read.

(Note that you don't want to read them-- you want to have read them.)
I really can't agree with you. Classics are classics BECAUSE they are great books. Dickens, Trollope, Austen, etc, are all fantastic reads.
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Old 06-08-2011, 10:04 AM   #15
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I really can't agree with you. Classics are classics BECAUSE they are great books. Dickens, Trollope, Austen, etc, are all fantastic reads.
Some classics are classics because they are great reads. Others are classics because they were first at doing x, when x is commonly employed in more modern, more refined writing.

Writing evolves over time, just like any other technology created by humans. The Model T Ford is a historically important car-- but that doesn't mean that some modern cars aren't an improvement in almost every way. For instance, Dickens is fine, Trollope, I don't believe I've ever heard of. But Austen? I'd rather spend my time reading a telephone directory.

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