ZDNet: Qualcomm's E-Ink killer-How Do You Mass Produce Mirasol

[Crowl]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Why does every new product have to be described as a "something-killer"? There's room in the market for multiple different display technologies; the arrival of a new one doesn't mean that something else is going to be "killed".

Lazy journalism, rather than sensible analysis it is simpler to label device y a device x killer.

[markbot]

Originally Posted by Ben Thornton

Or they would have to sell an awful lot. There have been 132m (IIRC) NDS sold, 100m iOS devices. It's not the right ball-park for Kindle sales, I wouldn't think. Mobile phones perhaps?

I don't know what the marginal profit on these screens are, but if they r priced at $80 (more than eink screens) and they make 40% operating margins, which is conceivable since they are the only provider, then they have to sell something like 60m just to breakeven on an accounting basis.

That is a LOT of screens. there are 120 million iOS devices in existence right now (globally).

In short, Qualcomm is making a huge statement on the future of mirasol with this investment (assuming it is actually made). It's the size of a large LCD plant.

[brecklundin]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Why does every new product have to be described as a "something-killer"? There's room in the market for multiple different display technologies; the arrival of a new one doesn't mean that something else is going to be "killed".

Sadly Harry, it seems that is the mindset of the world today. If you watch and listen to people over here in the US it's all about "going to war with my guys" when players talk about professional sports, that trickles down to the playground...but everything is angry and violent or it is, apparently, not sincere and worthy of attention or effort. Heck on of the long term tenets of business over here has been "...kill or be killed..." when talking competition.

But it is always about the violence to prove something which I still have no idea about. I can say when I read or hear such verbiage, I usually dismiss it and consider the source. But I know if any of the kids I coached ever used those sorts of phrases or words they earned the pine for a game or two...always respect the other side. I live for competition but not to the level of needing to equate it to death or doing harm, however figuratively it is meant, to anyone. An example is today when one team or competitor beats another it's no longer one team beat the other but rather one team delivered a "beat-down" on the other team or competitor.

When said in jest and having fun with "the guys", often on both sides, it's fine and, well funny, but the way some use it, as you point out, is hard to grasp the intent...eh, the writer must be a graduate of Cambridge....snickersnicker...

I dunno what you read and hear over on your side of the globe...

[brecklundin]

Originally Posted by Fbone

The screens would need to cost a fortune to recoup $2 billions.

Do you realize what it costs to build your local Ford/Chevy/Oldsmobuick dealership today? Not unusual for the costs to exceed $10M and creep up toward $20M for land and physical plant, etc...so $2B for a production facility designed to scale with demand is not a lot.

Also, do ya really think they expect to recoup the costs in a year or two? That is a 10-20yr ROI not counting tax credits or whatever it works out as in the country they will build in...plus in some countries politicians have become more expensive so the plant might cost $500M and the other $1.5B will cover the "overhead" and permit fees.

If they get the color right with vibrant colors, and I think they can, eink is in trouble even in plain reader markets. Especially if the Mirasol panels are priced to compete from day one and not wait for sales to drive down the per-unit overhead costs...it's a way into the mainstream w/o any sticker shock for the consumer and Qualcomm is likely well positioned to absorb the costs for a year or two. Plus I have no doubt the big players are chomping at the bit to get their hands on such low power full color panels...including tablet, laptop and desktop monitor mfg/users...these are market segments that PVI's eink panels simply cannot enter in any meaningful fashion. But ever device maker that used a display panel is going to have a HUGE interest in color panels like Mirasol, even DSLR's and pocket cameras could potentially find a way to make them work as right now, the current displays are less than useless outside.

[Dulin's Books]

Qualcomms IQ event is this week and they should be announcing their Mirasol Partners who will be building devices with the 6 inch display.

Im very interested in the idea of larger color bistable reflective displays (Mirasol/Color Eink) for things like supermarket checkouts. imagine the cost savings in energy use for a chain of groceries

[brecklundin]

exactly Dulin....

do you remember one of the big uses touted for the EPD/Bi-stable panels was also store shelf price and informational tags? The idea I recall reading was such tags and info displays could be adjusted with either a hand held or as a networked device that would periodically(?) connect to the in-house network to update the tags price and/or general info. Thus reducing errors and handling things like sale prices vs. regular pricing.

No matter what this type of display tech can and will reduce energy use if businesses ever have the funding to begin moving to them across the board.

Heck even a watch, which in all honesty rarely needs a true second hand or even secound counter...but a simple wrist watch could last a loooong time if the display was updated on once a minute (or whatever interval the user selects, even on demand). There are simply so many uses for this sort of display...billboards to entire store windows to the lowly shelf tag for items...I wonder if people here, because we focus on reading so much, neglect to see the real value as far more than our devices.

I can't wait to see the power requirements of home TV's once there are full color panels to be had. Who knows one day they panels themselves will be produced on demand at the point of sale in whatever size the buyer desires. Then one just wanders over to the "picture/TV frame" deparement of the store to hold your new panel. (had to toss in a bit of SF into the mix, just, well, because.)

[Dulin's Books]

Shelf Labels are already being used in stores all across Europe and in South America. Using Bridgestone's QR LPD epaper and Eink and LCDs. http://www.pricer.com/ http://www.bridgestone.com/corporate...010090201.html

A friend of mine works for a competitor to Pricer here in the states and they just started another project for a South American chain. They are also working with one of the bigger chains here about ESL. They are currently evaluating the Bridgestone, Eink and Sipix products

[brecklundin]

Dulin,

What great news!! Of course we are behind this curve as well as others here in the US...

I LOVE the idea of the ability to create multilingual versions of a sign or whatever simply by allowing the user to opt for that view...seriously, I never considered that use...very cool!