Weird Kindle feature - Page 2

Tiersten · 10-20-2010, 10:03 PM

Not sure where you got the idea that it is saving the "GUI state" into flash. It doesn't do that.

The screensaver doesn't mean the Kindle is actually in sleep mode. It doesn't immediately go into the power saving mode as it may be busy with other operations like music, TTS or indexing. If none of those tasks need to be run or are running then it will go into low power mode after a preset amount of time and which point it is still using power to maintain the contents of RAM. In this mode, it is unresponsive to keypresses except the power button which will wake it but there is also a timer which will periodically wake the Kindle to make it check in over Whispernet.

This is why the battery life of the Kindle 3G+WiFi is significantly shorter than that of the WiFi only model even if it is kept in standby mode.

Tiersten · 10-20-2010, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stonecold

The problem with that is that devices (such as Kindle) don't always know when an error has occured and Amazon never find out. For example, I take screenshots when ever a visible glitch occurs and I mail the screenshots in a ZIP file to kindle-feedback@amazon.com so that Amazon are able to diagnose the problem(s). I recently asked Amazon if they actually benefit from this or if it's only a nuicence, and they replied that it is actually quite helpful. I then asked them if I should include a copy of the message log (all_logs_as_of_xxx_xxx_xx_xx.xx.xx_PDT_xxxx.txt) at the time I took the screenshot of the glitch so that each glitch screenshot had a message log attached. They said that would actually be quite helpful because Kindle won't always know when a glitch has occured and won't send the log files to Amazon.

Sending screenshots and logs of a specific issue is completely different to generating false logs of a crash loop which isn't actually happening. At the end of the day, it is your Kindle and whether you generate massive amounts of logs for Amazon or not is your own business. If you want to help Amazon diagnose problems then do what you're currently doing and send in the logs + screenshots manually.

Stonecold · 10-20-2010, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiersten

Not sure where you got the idea that it is saving the "GUI state" into flash. It doesn't do that.

The screensaver doesn't mean the Kindle is actually in sleep mode. It doesn't immediately go into the power saving mode as it may be busy with other operations like music, TTS or indexing. If none of those tasks need to be run or are running then it will go into low power mode after a preset amount of time and which point it is still using power to maintain the contents of RAM. In this mode, it is unresponsive to keypresses except the power button which will wake it but there is also a timer which will periodically wake the Kindle to make it check in over Whispernet.

This is why the battery life of the Kindle 3G+WiFi is significantly shorter than that of the WiFi only model even if it is kept in standby mode.

Actually, it does do that. That's what hibernation is. That's why you can turn your Kindle off in the middle of anything and when you turn it back on you'll be at the same place you were. Tasks and processes are temperarily suspended (most of them, at least) and are resumed upon waking. And as I said, it doesn't go into sleep mode immediately. I said it waits to finish certain tasks before hibernating. I never said that screensaver mode was indicative of hibernation or standby mode.

Tiersten · 10-20-2010, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stonecold

Actually, it does do that. That's what hibernation is. That's why you can turn your Kindle off in the middle of anything and when you turn it back on you'll be at the same place you were. Tasks and processes are temperarily suspended (most of them, at least) and are resumed upon waking. And as I said, it doesn't go into sleep mode immediately. I said it waits to finish certain tasks before hibernating. I never said that screensaver mode was indicative of hibernation or standby mode.

I know what hibernation is. Where are you seeing that the Kindle is hibernating and storing state to flash? I don't see it saving the contents of RAM to flash at all or see anything that would do this in the firmware. The serial console doesn't mention it doing this either. It keeps everything in RAM during suspend and just keeps it powered to maintain the contents.

Stonecold · 10-21-2010, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiersten

I know what hibernation is. Where are you seeing that the Kindle is hibernating and storing state to flash? I don't see it saving the contents of RAM to flash at all or see anything that would do this in the firmware. The serial console doesn't mention it doing this either. It keeps everything in RAM during suspend and just keeps it powered to maintain the contents.

I know that! When you turn your Kindle OFF (i.e. when you hold the power button for 7 seconds) it goes into hibernation mode. That's why it takes so long to wake up. In screensacer mode, it finishes up certain tasks and kills most processes after it saves its current state in the flash. It takes a slightly longer time to turn back on from screensaver mode then it does to go into screensaver mode because it has to initialize the processes that were suspended.

Stonecold · 10-21-2010, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiersten

Sending screenshots and logs of a specific issue is completely different to generating false logs of a crash loop which isn't actually happening. At the end of the day, it is your Kindle and whether you generate massive amounts of logs for Amazon or not is your own business. If you want to help Amazon diagnose problems then do what you're currently doing and send in the logs + screenshots manually.

I looked it up and it turns out that it doesn't create a log to diagnose the cause of a crash loop. It actuallt creates a small log file for any fatal system error. The only reason it can be induced by rapidly turning the device on and off is because it simulates a crash loop and a crash loop is the only major hardware/software error that can be simulated without modifying the software or hardware of the device itself.

NiLuJe · 10-21-2010, 12:38 AM

That's funny, because when I turn my Kindle off, it (shockingly!) actually turns OFF! What a revolutionary concept!

Now, as for the dual timeout (600s + 60s), I never really checked if the last step was suspend to ram or suspend to disk, but frankly, I don't really care, it's suspended. >_<".
And a single short slide of the power button drops you in the same state than the first timeout (ie. ss, not suspend).

curstpriest · 10-21-2010, 11:17 AM

I see no reason why the kindle would need a hibernation mode. Writing 256mb to nand is retarded and unnecessary. There are other ways to accomplish instant-on with SSD devices with integraded components (thats what the kindle is). Book positions and user markers can be saved to a 5kb bin file. 5kb < 256mb. Also it takes a good while to dump 256mb to flash. I doubt the nand is that high grade, and it also takes a good amount of power to do that kind of a dump.

Stonecold · 10-21-2010, 01:34 PM

lol
I never said it did a complete memory dump! It would be so stupid to do that! And what if you had less than 256 MB of space left? Would Kindle refuse to hibernate or something? I said that it dumps certain files containing previous state data. That data is probably <10 KB!

Kevin2960 · 10-21-2010, 02:05 PM

This guy in one of his threads (this one) seems to claim to be a Guru with expert technical knowledge of the Kindle's workings, then in another thread DOESN'T know if a certain non-standard charger from a Phone is safe to use,

I agree get him a safety helmet, me too, because if he doesn't kill himself, he WILL drive me nuts LOL !

Whys · 03-11-2011, 09:31 PM

Was a 7 megabyte video really necessary? Was my creating an account just to say this really necessary?

Our 18 month managed to find this screen, as she manages to find every possible obscure esoteric and complex combo of buts that reboots, formats, locks-up, whatever. Still... TMI.

aditya3098 · 03-16-2013, 11:03 PM

This works on a touch

eureka · 03-17-2013, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aditya3098

This works on a touch

I confirm. On KT it's dumping cvm (Java machine) internal state information. This behavior is initiated by /usr/bin/powerd and handled by /usr/bin/dump-and-kill-cvm.

aditya3098 · 03-17-2013, 01:15 AM

It actually useful for cases where you have an app that wont close.

zamana · 03-25-2013, 12:22 PM

I'm learning A LOT with this thread. Really amazing.

But I can't agree (and this is not only here, but everywhere...) with people saying that the kindle "takes SO LONG" to wake up after being turned off.

My two kindles (touch and PW) wake up almost instantaneously!

What are you expecting? A fraction of a nanosecond?

10-20-2010, 10:03 PM	#16
Tiersten Guru Posts: 987 Karma: 8641 Join Date: Aug 2010 Device: Kindle 3G+WiFi	Not sure where you got the idea that it is saving the "GUI state" into flash. It doesn't do that. The screensaver doesn't mean the Kindle is actually in sleep mode. It doesn't immediately go into the power saving mode as it may be busy with other operations like music, TTS or indexing. If none of those tasks need to be run or are running then it will go into low power mode after a preset amount of time and which point it is still using power to maintain the contents of RAM. In this mode, it is unresponsive to keypresses except the power button which will wake it but there is also a timer which will periodically wake the Kindle to make it check in over Whispernet. This is why the battery life of the Kindle 3G+WiFi is significantly shorter than that of the WiFi only model even if it is kept in standby mode. Last edited by Tiersten; 10-20-2010 at 10:06 PM.

10-21-2010, 12:38 AM	#22
NiLuJe BLAM! Posts: 13,477 Karma: 26012492 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Paris, France Device: Kindle 2i, 3g, 4, 5w, PW, PW2, PW5; Kobo H2O, Forma, Elipsa, Sage, C2E	That's funny, because when I turn my Kindle off, it (shockingly!) actually turns OFF! What a revolutionary concept! Now, as for the dual timeout (600s + 60s), I never really checked if the last step was suspend to ram or suspend to disk, but frankly, I don't really care, it's suspended. >_<". And a single short slide of the power button drops you in the same state than the first timeout (ie. ss, not suspend). Last edited by NiLuJe; 10-21-2010 at 12:46 AM.

10-21-2010, 02:05 PM	#25
Kevin2960 YODA's Uglier Twin Posts: 974 Karma: 6295251 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Leicester, UK Device: PRS-600 and 2 Kindle 3's - and now a K4 + HTC Desire HD	This guy in one of his threads (this one) seems to claim to be a Guru with expert technical knowledge of the Kindle's workings, then in another thread DOESN'T know if a certain non-standard charger from a Phone is safe to use, I agree get him a safety helmet, me too, because if he doesn't kill himself, he WILL drive me nuts LOL ! Last edited by Kevin2960; 10-21-2010 at 06:44 PM.

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10-21-2010, 11:17 AM	#23
curstpriest Confused Posts: 402 Karma: 5538 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Bay Area Device: Kindle DXG	I see no reason why the kindle would need a hibernation mode. Writing 256mb to nand is retarded and unnecessary. There are other ways to accomplish instant-on with SSD devices with integraded components (thats what the kindle is). Book positions and user markers can be saved to a 5kb bin file. 5kb < 256mb. Also it takes a good while to dump 256mb to flash. I doubt the nand is that high grade, and it also takes a good amount of power to do that kind of a dump.

10-21-2010, 01:34 PM	#24
Stonecold Connoisseur Posts: 95 Karma: 500 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Davis, CA Device: Kindle 3 (B006)	lol I never said it did a complete memory dump! It would be so stupid to do that! And what if you had less than 256 MB of space left? Would Kindle refuse to hibernate or something? I said that it dumps certain files containing previous state data. That data is probably <10 KB!

03-11-2011, 09:31 PM	#26
Whys Junior Member Posts: 1 Karma: 10 Join Date: Mar 2011 Device: Kindle	Was a 7 megabyte video really necessary? Was my creating an account just to say this really necessary? Our 18 month managed to find this screen, as she manages to find every possible obscure esoteric and complex combo of buts that reboots, formats, locks-up, whatever. Still... TMI.

03-16-2013, 11:03 PM	#27
aditya3098 Guru Posts: 608 Karma: 1588610 Join Date: Jan 2012 Device: Kindle Scribe	This works on a touch

03-17-2013, 01:15 AM	#29
aditya3098 Guru Posts: 608 Karma: 1588610 Join Date: Jan 2012 Device: Kindle Scribe	It actually useful for cases where you have an app that wont close.

03-25-2013, 12:22 PM	#30
zamana Zealot Posts: 127 Karma: 52836 Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: São Paulo / Brazil Device: Kindles: Touch, PW1, Voyage	I'm learning A LOT with this thread. Really amazing. But I can't agree (and this is not only here, but everywhere...) with people saying that the kindle "takes SO LONG" to wake up after being turned off. My two kindles (touch and PW) wake up almost instantaneously! What are you expecting? A fraction of a nanosecond?