CNN: Why can't you 'give' an e-book?

[JSWolf]

I've given my wife eBooks before. I just buy the eBooks I want to give her and strip the DRM. No problem at all.

[nekokami]

Originally Posted by kovidgoyal

Can't you do the usual wishlist thing, where someone puts something on their wishlist and you buy it for them? Does that not apply to ebooks?

I'm not sure I'd want the ability for people to send me unsolicited gifts electronically.

I have three ebooks in my wishlist at Amazon. Next to each of them is the note "This item cannot be purchased as a gift at this time." The popup window next to that note reads, "While gifting is not yet offered in the Kindle store, we are working to make it available in the near future." It's a nuisance, but as of last winter, no ebook sellers offered anything better.

Originally Posted by Lexicon

You could avoid the issues involved with people sending you unsolicited ebooks by having the reading system notify you and giving you the option to:

1. Accept the gift and download it to the device.
2. Accept the gift but hold it on Amazon's servers for now.
3. Reject the gift and refund the money to the purchaser.

1 would cover most cases I expect. 3 is obviously a bit rude but should probably be there as an option just in case.

2 is the interesting one. Amazon could implement a system for exchanging undownloaded books, so you could virtually "take back" an unwanted ebook and choose another instead.

I think these are good options. #2 might as well be "accept the value of the gift," though. It's sort of like exchanging a gift at a store, e.g. when a sweater is the wrong size, or two people got you the same CD.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by nekokami

I have three ebooks in my wishlist at Amazon. Next to each of them is the note "This item cannot be purchased as a gift at this time." The popup window next to that note reads, "While gifting is not yet offered in the Kindle store, we are working to make it available in the near future." It's a nuisance, but as of last winter, no ebook sellers offered anything better.

Fictionwise has some kind of gift certificate setup. It's unclear whether it's "a gift certificate with link to the chosen book" or "a discount code worth 100% of the price of that book."

It's still basic & fairly pathetic, and requires the recipient to redeem it. Not like "buy book; have it shipped to friends house;" it's "buy coupon, have it sent to friend with a note telling them where they can use it." Bleh.

[nekokami]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

Fictionwise has some kind of gift certificate setup. It's unclear whether it's "a gift certificate with link to the chosen book" or "a discount code worth 100% of the price of that book."

It's still basic & fairly pathetic, and requires the recipient to redeem it. Not like "buy book; have it shipped to friends house;" it's "buy coupon, have it sent to friend with a note telling them where they can use it." Bleh.

I checked. At least six months ago, it was "a discount code worth 100% of the price of that book."

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by nekokami

I have three ebooks in my wishlist at Amazon. Next to each of them is the note "This item cannot be purchased as a gift at this time." The popup window next to that note reads, "While gifting is not yet offered in the Kindle store, we are working to make it available in the near future." It's a nuisance, but as of last winter, no ebook sellers offered anything better.

The question, to me, is why should we need the retailers permission and/or support in order to be allowed to give an item as a gift? What ever happened to buying a product and then doing whatever you (legally) want to with it. Give it as a gift, resell it... whatever.

It's a shame that the corporations have used DRM/DMCA to take away what should be consumer rights, and consumers seem to act like this is normal.

In a sane world there should be nothing wrong with stripping DRM for a use that is already legal under copyright law.

[Genaro Zamora]

It's gotta be a technicle and security issue,
it just doesn't make much sense otherwise.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

In a sane world there should be nothing wrong with stripping DRM for a use that is already legal under copyright law.

That's what the recent MGE vs GE ruling seems to say: "The DMCA prohibits only forms of access that would violate or impinge on the protections that the Copyright Act otherwise affords copyright owners." If there's no infringement, there's no DMCA trigger, even for acts the DMCA specifically forbids--they're only forbidden for uses that violate copyright.

But I suspect we'll be a while waiting for a ruling that specifically addresses that issue; lack of lawsuits for "stripped for personal use" means lack of ruling that says "stripping for personal use is okay." Meanwhile, stores get away with declaring that legal acts are not.

(Hm. Is there a law against telling people something is illegal when it's not? Does "fraud" extend to "tell people it's against the law for them to buy it from someone other than you?")

[nekokami]

In case anyone's curious, here's a link to the actual text of the relevant portion of the DMCA:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17...1----000-.html

Section (f) is particularly interesting, in terms of "interoperability."

[Kali Yuga]

Just to be clear, this isn't really a DRM issue. For example, the Apple store allows users to purchase specific songs etc as gifts, and the purchase is tied to both the buyer's and recipient's accounts. I'm pretty sure (but not 100%) that Wiiware also does gifts.

I'd say the real issue is that not enough people have Kindle accounts to make this entirely workable yet. E.g. send someone an ebook, and they may not have the account set up yet.

Or to put it another way, it's likely just a matter of time before ebook retailers start implementing specific gifts. I'd assume that things like new multi-platform software are higher priority at the moment.

[nekokami]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

Just to be clear, this isn't really a DRM issue. For example, the Apple store allows users to purchase specific songs etc as gifts, and the purchase is tied to both the buyer's and recipient's accounts. I'm pretty sure (but not 100%) that Wiiware also does gifts.

I'd say the real issue is that not enough people have Kindle accounts to make this entirely workable yet. E.g. send someone an ebook, and they may not have the account set up yet.

Or to put it another way, it's likely just a matter of time before ebook retailers start implementing specific gifts. I'd assume that things like new multi-platform software are higher priority at the moment.

Yes, I agree. Amazon will probably implement the ability to give ebooks from someone's wishlist within the next year-- as someone else suggested, perhaps by this winter's holiday season.

Perhaps they're working on a more sophisticated way to do this, e.g. allowing the giver to specify a delivery date so the "package" doesn't get opened early.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

Just to be clear, this isn't really a DRM issue.

It is definitely a DRM issue. That's the only thing preventing you from doing what is already legal under copyright. Without DRM, anybody could already "gift" an ebook.

[pietvo]

With Adobe DRM there is a way to `gift' an ebook:
1. Buy the ebook. When you download the book, you don't get an epub of pdf file, but an acsm file (often URLLink.acsm). Now this is the tricky point: Don't open this file with ADE or Sony Reader library but save it as a file. This file is a ticket to download the real book but it is not yet tied to a particular Adobe ID. Your account at the bookshop doesn't know your Adobe ID.

Now send this file to the intended recipient. When they open this file with ADE or Sony, the real ebook will be downloaded and tied to their Adobe ID. The acsm file (or rather the information in it) is then registered to have been used so you can't use it on a second Adobe ID.

[Rich_D]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I've given my wife eBooks before. I just buy the eBooks I want to give her and strip the DRM. No problem at all.

Same here. Well, I meant my wife, but you get the idea!

[nekokami]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

It is definitely a DRM issue. That's the only thing preventing you from doing what is already legal under copyright. Without DRM, anybody could already "gift" an ebook.

Well... yes and no. I think one of the reasons the Kindle is so popular is the interface that lets you buy books from Amazon and download them directly to the Kindle. Granted you can email documents to someone else's Kindle, but the ease to the recipient of being able to automatically see the new book in their shelf list, just like all the other books they get from Amazon, is a real advantage.

Those of us who are used to hacking around with our devices, stripping DRM and loading files on devices that don't nominally support such use, can easily forget the usability expectations and comfort level of the kind of audience Amazon is going after.

[pietvo]

Originally Posted by nekokami

In case anyone's curious, here's a link to the actual text of the relevant portion of the DMCA:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17...1----000-.html

Section (f) is particularly interesting, in terms of "interoperability."

But that applies to reverse engineering of software to make the software interoperable. It doesn't talk about breaking DRM on ebooks. Maybe it could be applied to interoperability of e.g. ADE and Calibre for the purpose of conversion of DRM'ed ebooks, but I think that would be a tricky legal debate.