When the Internet runs out of space?

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by grumpy3b

as an aside, most all tires sold today have RFID chips in them. But they say the chips of merely for inventory control. Sure, yup that's what the chips are for.

What... did you think they were tracking your car's every move and recording your conversations and red-light running?

'Cause the car itself can do all that...

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

In an ideal world, of course, that's all it takes. In the real world, you have your tires checked, you realize they're not bald yet, but they've probably got about another 1000 miles on them, so you say, "Sure, I can keep track and get 'em then, because my money's tight now." Then life gets busy, you don't notice that you've passed 1000 miles, then you're heading for a red light on a downhill road on a rainy day and you don't seem to be actually stopping...

Things like this can happen, and they do, all the time, to all kinds of people. (Yes, the above example happened to me.) If you're so contentious that you never miss an appointment, always get your car checked at precise intervals, always have the money to get the things you need when you're told you need them... that's great. But for the record, you happen to be in the minority!

Well, I have to admit that it's not me, it's my husband. We get out car serviced regularly and oil changed as well. We budget for emergecies as well as regular car maintenance. www.daveramsey.com I love this guy, he helps keep people on the right track. Check him out, you won't regret it.

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

Sorry for your hack episode. As you indicated... you can get those today. That's a security issue that needs to be addressed, to be sure; but it's a different issue.

Yep, a large company that target, best buy, and other large companies use was hacked recently - I'm not sure how much of my information was hacked but they are so very sure that it was only my name and email address. Until something comes out to force them to admit it was more than that.

The security of these types of systems is exactly the issue. Its a privacy issue - how dare they decide to stick tracking devices all over every product that I buy - so they can track me - and then (adding insult to injury) not have any true way to protect this very private information?

[Anthem]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

This, I don't like at all. I would hate to get notifications that my milk is gone or I should buy new tires. Thats just going a little to far.

Yeah, that would blow.

[grumpy3b]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

What... did you think they were tracking your car's every move and recording your conversations and red-light running?

'Cause the car itself can do all that...

naw, it's all about the secret life of tires.

Plus our Kindles can already listen to us anyway.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

The security of these types of systems is exactly the issue. Its a privacy issue - how dare they decide to stick tracking devices all over every product that I buy - so they can track me - and then (adding insult to injury) not have any true way to protect this very private information?

They do have ways of protecting the information. It's just not perfect... neither is the rest of the world. Your house can be broken into, and your phone conversation can be overheard. And there are better security measures possible... but they require controls over personal freedoms that people never seem to be willing to give up... so our lapse of security is really our own fault.

I'd like to suggest that all of that is a bit, but I know I can't. An ebook reading device that can report your copying and file-sharing becomes a security issue... this is why I brought the article up. The potential is already with us, in our computers, smartphones and in some other devices; it is becoming noticeable in office environments, especially where security is an issue, but not so much with personal devices... yet.

At about the time we're convincing booksellers to toss DRM systems, they may be preparing to put PIv6 capability onto our readers and other devices, and say to us: "DRM? Sure, we'll toss it... we don't need it any more." Because they'll have a protocol embedded in your device that does all the same things as DRM, and can't be removed.

(Hmm... I probably should have saved that last bit for Halloween... )

Or... maybe... this protocol can be rolled out and used in a way that will actually benefit the use and security of digital files, both for the producer and the consumer, better than DRM ever could. Well, at least it may be better (it can't be much worse). We might even be part of the dialog that helps it along, much in the same way early dialogs at MR helped shape aspects of the ebook industry.

[DiapDealer]

"DRM? Sure, we'll toss it... we don't need it any more." Because they'll have a protocol embedded in your device that does all the same things as DRM, and can't be removed.

IPv6 can't be compared to DRM any more than IPv4, IPX/SPX, UDP, or Frame-Relay can. I'm not following at all.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

IPv6 can't be compared to DRM any more than IPv4, IPX/SPX, UDP, or Frame-Relay can. I'm not following at all.

Back to the first post:

The suggestion here is that ebook reading devices and cellphones, for example, may be able to contact a book outlet when it knows you’ve finished a book, or looked up an author or phrase, in order to sell you a new book. Doesn’t sound too bad. But it also suggests that device might be able to contact the outlet (or… bum bum bummm… someone else) if you copy that ebook and give it to someone else, or post it online.

[DiapDealer]

The suggestion here is that ebook reading devices and cellphones, for example, may be able to contact a book outlet when it knows you’ve finished a book, or looked up an author or phrase, in order to sell you a new book. Doesn’t sound too bad. But it also suggests that device might be able to contact the outlet (or… bum bum bummm… someone else) if you copy that ebook and give it to someone else, or post it online.

But they could build functionality like that (and some do) into devices right now. IPv6 won't make that sort of thing any easier. Sorry, I just really think that apples are being compared to oranges here.

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

They do have ways of protecting the information. It's just not perfect... neither is the rest of the world. Your house can be broken into, and your phone conversation can be overheard. And there are better security measures possible... but they require controls over personal freedoms that people never seem to be willing to give up... so our lapse of security is really our own fault.

I'd like to suggest that all of that is a bit, but I know I can't. An ebook reading device that can report your copying and file-sharing becomes a security issue... this is why I brought the article up. The potential is already with us, in our computers, smartphones and in some other devices; it is becoming noticeable in office environments, especially where security is an issue, but not so much with personal devices... yet.

At about the time we're convincing booksellers to toss DRM systems, they may be preparing to put PIv6 capability onto our readers and other devices, and say to us: "DRM? Sure, we'll toss it... we don't need it any more." Because they'll have a protocol embedded in your device that does all the same things as DRM, and can't be removed.

(Hmm... I probably should have saved that last bit for Halloween... )

Or... maybe... this protocol can be rolled out and used in a way that will actually benefit the use and security of digital files, both for the producer and the consumer, better than DRM ever could. Well, at least it may be better (it can't be much worse). We might even be part of the dialog that helps it along, much in the same way early dialogs at MR helped shape aspects of the ebook industry.

While I can understand what you are saying, someone breaking into your house is - IMO - very different than someone hacking into a huge information farming database. Or whatever you call these companies.

There is a decided lack of information that someone can get from breaking into my house. They are more interested in what they can carry off, not what my life is like. TVs, computers, jewelry (etc) could all disappear. Maybe - if the thief is also enterprising - credit cards & check books, too. They don't care that I like to buy dried yams for my dog or that I shopped from Amazon 22 times last month. It's unlikely that they'll run off with my bank statements or are concerned about my spending habits.
Breaking into someone's house also creates a decided risk on the part of the criminal. They are physically in someone else's home and on their property. Not sure where you are but here I would have the right to kill that person.

Hacking into a huge database with people's private information has a decided lack of risk. These people are sitting at home with IP jammers and whatever else they use to mask their trail. If they get caught the most they'll ever get is jail time (and it is often unlikely that they get caught).

The major issue that falls the ebook world is that how can anyone really say that it is not a major breech of privacy to plug this crap into my ebook reader? I would never buy a completely enabled ebook reader if I were to get constant notices from the device/book seller saying things like, “Now that you’ve completed book 1 of Your Life, Your Lack of Privacy you can buy book 2 at only double the price!” I know that content creators want to protect their privacy but I think even they will balk at being tracked to such a degree. The scariest part of the movie Minority Report – to me – the part where the primary character had to remove his eye balls to change his identity.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

The scariest part of the movie Minority Report – to me – the part where the primary character had to remove his eye balls to change his identity.

I can see we have very different priorities. The scariest part of Minority Report, to me, was the fact that because of inaccurate information, the primary character felt the need to change his identity (not to mention the suggestion that the future cannot be changed, even with foreknowledge).

And I am much more concerned with someone breaking into my house than hacking into a database. Information loss can be fixed. False payments can be annulled. Accounts can be changed. Yeah, it sucks, but it's all fixable. Someone breaking into my house can end my life, or the life of my loved ones. To me, the two don't even compare... a house break-in is much, much worse.

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

I can see we have very different priorities. The scariest part of Minority Report, to me, was the fact that because of inaccurate information, the primary character felt the need to change his identity (not to mention the suggestion that the future cannot be changed, even with foreknowledge).

And I am much more concerned with someone breaking into my house than hacking into a database. Information loss can be fixed. False payments can be annulled. Accounts can be changed. Yeah, it sucks, but it's all fixable. Someone breaking into my house can end my life, or the life of my loved ones. To me, the two don't even compare... a house break-in is much, much worse.

I never said that one was worse than the other - the point I was making is the type of risk each crime had for the criminal and what they could get from it.

Of course no one wants to be home invaded.

But I suggest a .45 Glock, firearm classes, and shooting in tight groups in the chest and head areas. It's not the answer but it's an answer.

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

The suggestion here is that ebook reading devices and cellphones, for example, may be able to contact a book outlet when it knows you’ve finished a book, or looked up an author or phrase, in order to sell you a new book. Doesn’t sound too bad. But it also suggests that device might be able to contact the outlet (or… bum bum bummm… someone else) if you copy that ebook and give it to someone else, or post it online. Hey, at least that would solve the DRM problem…

One thing that saddens me is all the court cases concerning copyright infringement. Publicized and unpublicized. I copy, post and share daily, nothing wrong with it.

Let's hope by the time Ipv6 rolls around the notion of copyright is finally abandoned and we are in the middle of the new era, where the best art is supported by the public completely, via donations, perhaps made possible by Ipv6 tech.

[Solicitous]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

But they could build functionality like that (and some do) into devices right now. IPv6 won't make that sort of thing any easier. Sorry, I just really think that apples are being compared to oranges here.

That is exactly what I was thinking when reading the comments about devices sending info back. IPV4 or IPV6 makes bugger all difference to the device. Just because a device has IPV6 doesn't mean that say an ebook store had unobstructed access to your device. Each device still needs an ip address and the ip address you get assigned depends upon the isp you are with, an ebook store can't set that on your device and access it anytime they want.

I wish I bookmarked it, but I read a good article a few months ago about a possible plan to slowly move in IPV6 and run parallel with IPV4 with the anticipation over time IPV4 devices will slowly be replaced with new gear. Think of the TV stations moving from analog to digital, one day they didn't wake up and turn off analog and turn on digital, they slowly rolled it out (ok issues with ipv4->ipv6 and vice versa with IP traffic, but you get the drift).

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Solicitous

That is exactly what I was thinking when reading the comments about devices sending info back. IPV4 or IPV6 makes bugger all difference to the device.

Thank for the backup! IP, be it V4 or V6, is a packet switching protocol that is completely ignorant of the intended usage of the data being carried in its "packet." It has an address it came from and an address it needs to go to. So it bounces happily along from A to B. Delivery is its only agenda. It doesn't decide to contact a store--or anything else for that matter. IPv6 doesn't change how the internet (or an internet connected device) works. It just gives the internet more endpoints to connect.

Solicitous, I agree that when it happens, there will be a very long period of running in parallel that minimizes the confusion.

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Thank for the backup! IP, be it V4 or V6, is a packet switching protocol that is completely ignorant of the intended usage of the data being carried in its "packet." It has an address it came from and an address it needs to go to. So it bounces happily along from A to B. Delivery is its only agenda. It doesn't decide to contact a store--or anything else for that matter. IPv6 doesn't change how the internet (or an internet connected device) works. It just gives the internet more endpoints to connect.

Solicitous, I agree that when it happens, there will be a very long period of running in parallel that minimizes the confusion.

Wooosh!

That was the sound of the conversation going over my head...