Class action suit against Amazon (sign up here!)

gmvasco · 07-17-2009, 06:35 PM

By now, you've read about Amazon deleting your books.
Feel angry about someone stealing your property and then leaving you some cash to compensate?
Well, you've come to the right thread.
Before we get started, let me say something to all those who can see Amazon's point on this matter. You're wrong. Amazon's defense could be that they "lease" the book to you until such a time when they end the lease contract (a bit more complicated than that perhaps, but it will suffice for now). Well, I just went back to Amazon's site and behold! They sell you the book.

That wording is legally binding, and Amazon cannot claim a "typo" defense on this case, since they have always advertised selling those books, and they have a very large legal department to avoid such errors.

So, they sold you the book. That means that any average person (or a jury of their peers) will understand that the buyer has ownership of said book. Therefore the buyer can attribute any value for that book he or she wishes. I have a collection of hardcover editions of English Classics which I bought for 15 euros. I will not sell them for less than 200 euros. I get to state my price now. They're mine.
You get the picture.

So, Amazon just accessed your "Library" (could it be a "typo"?) and took some books out of there and paid you what they thought the book was worth. They did not ask you about it, they did not even inform you that they were going to do it.
You could have been almost finished with the book. You could have made annotations to it. Your annotations that have value to you. You could have emotional attachments to it. It could have been a gift from a loved one. They don't care.

Taking all of these aspects into account, I think Amazon is due some punishment and their customers some compensation.

Get organized, ask for advice, fight it in the press, fight it in the courts, but get them to stop. And get some compensation out of them. May this thread be the first step towards a less dystopian future.

Disclaimer: I cannot legally own a Kindle, since I live in Europe, so I'll step aside to let our American friends once again fight for freedom and justice (and reap the rewards). Though I wouldn't mind 1% of the total amount paid in punitive and compensatory damages. Just kidding. Unless you're serious.

Canuck_in_Japan · 07-17-2009, 06:49 PM

This class action suit makes more sense then the one over the Kindle screen replacement even though they've said they'll do it for free.

Sporadic · 07-17-2009, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmvasco

By now, you've read about Amazon deleting your books.

You mean about how Amazon deleted Ayn Rand bootlegs somebody uploaded to the Kindle store and removed 1984/Animal Farm because they are not public domain in America and Mobi didn't have the rights to sell them?

Yeah, I heard about that.

TIME TO CASH IN!!!

carld · 07-17-2009, 10:38 PM

Regarding your proposed class action suit.

Just. Stop.

I mean really, *rolls eyes*

Gideon · 07-17-2009, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carld

Regarding your proposed class action suit.

Just. Stop.

I mean really, *rolls eyes*

That. What he said. They took away your illegal copies? Oh no. Whatever will you do? The fact that the copies were not legitimate combined with the license agreement means you won't win jack.

If you had some grounds to fight the idea of 'licensing' you might have something, but illegal copies? Yeah... good luck with that.

(not a lawyer, nothing I say should be considered as professional legal advice, etc etc)

tompe · 07-17-2009, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gideon

If you had some grounds to fight the idea of 'licensing' you might have something, but illegal copies? Yeah... good luck with that.

What is this "illegal copies" and what law defines them as illegal. For what I know it is the distribution that makes it a copyright infringement. The distribution method can never make it illegal to have it since you can be the copyright owner and buy a copy from Amazon.

carld · 07-17-2009, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tompe

What is this "illegal copies" and what law defines them as illegal. For what I know it is the distribution that makes it a copyright infringement. The distribution method can never make it illegal to have it since you can be the copyright owner and buy a copy from Amazon.

You're splitting hairs. The copies were sold by someone without the right to sell them. They can only be sold by the legitimate publisher. Amazon did exactly the right thing.

HarryT · 07-18-2009, 05:17 AM

To the original poster: might I respectfully suggest that it you feel the need to persecute someone, it should be the person who illegally uploaded the material to Amazon. They are the ones who did wrong, not Amazon. In removing the illegal material and refunded the purchasers' money Amazon have done precisely the right thing. Forget the law - it was the right thing to do.

Slow_hand · 07-18-2009, 06:02 AM

OP - get lost. You don't even have a horse in the race and you want to stir it up.

doreenjoy · 07-18-2009, 06:07 AM

No need to be rude here.

"A" for effort to the OP.

Sporadic · 07-18-2009, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doreenjoy

No need to be rude here.

"A" for effort to the OP.

Too bad he gets an "F" for common sense

tompe · 07-18-2009, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

To the original poster: might I respectfully suggest that it you feel the need to persecute someone, it should be the person who illegally uploaded the material to Amazon. They are the ones who did wrong, not Amazon. In removing the illegal material and refunded the purchasers' money Amazon have done precisely the right thing. Forget the law - it was the right thing to do.

Just claiming your morality as universal does make it so. My moral reasoning give me the conclusion it was the wrong thing to do.

tompe · 07-18-2009, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carld

You're splitting hairs. The copies were sold by someone without the right to sell them. They can only be sold by the legitimate publisher. Amazon did exactly the right thing.

According to what law?

Not according to first sale principle.

In many countries if you buy something stolen in good faith it is yours to keep.

ladyjane · 07-18-2009, 07:45 AM

here in Canada , you buy something stolen and are found out..you loose..end of story. no money back..no sorry ..

Mr. Goodbar · 07-18-2009, 08:49 AM

In the U.S. it is also illegal to buy stolen property. Now you could argue that it was unknown that it was stolen and you bought from a reputable seller, but the bottom line is still that it is stolen property. The publisher did not legally own the rights to distribute the book. Amazon maybe should have notified people first, but I don't think this is as big a deal as some people are making it out to be.

07-17-2009, 06:35 PM	#1
gmvasco Enthusiast Posts: 41 Karma: 630 Join Date: Apr 2005	Class action suit against Amazon (sign up here!) By now, you've read about Amazon deleting your books. Feel angry about someone stealing your property and then leaving you some cash to compensate? Well, you've come to the right thread. Before we get started, let me say something to all those who can see Amazon's point on this matter. You're wrong. Amazon's defense could be that they "lease" the book to you until such a time when they end the lease contract (a bit more complicated than that perhaps, but it will suffice for now). Well, I just went back to Amazon's site and behold! They sell you the book. That wording is legally binding, and Amazon cannot claim a "typo" defense on this case, since they have always advertised selling those books, and they have a very large legal department to avoid such errors. So, they sold you the book. That means that any average person (or a jury of their peers) will understand that the buyer has ownership of said book. Therefore the buyer can attribute any value for that book he or she wishes. I have a collection of hardcover editions of English Classics which I bought for 15 euros. I will not sell them for less than 200 euros. I get to state my price now. They're mine. You get the picture. So, Amazon just accessed your "Library" (could it be a "typo"?) and took some books out of there and paid you what they thought the book was worth. They did not ask you about it, they did not even inform you that they were going to do it. You could have been almost finished with the book. You could have made annotations to it. Your annotations that have value to you. You could have emotional attachments to it. It could have been a gift from a loved one. They don't care. Taking all of these aspects into account, I think Amazon is due some punishment and their customers some compensation. Get organized, ask for advice, fight it in the press, fight it in the courts, but get them to stop. And get some compensation out of them. May this thread be the first step towards a less dystopian future. Disclaimer: I cannot legally own a Kindle, since I live in Europe, so I'll step aside to let our American friends once again fight for freedom and justice (and reap the rewards). Though I wouldn't mind 1% of the total amount paid in punitive and compensatory damages. Just kidding. Unless you're serious. Last edited by gmvasco; 07-17-2009 at 06:38 PM. Reason: typos :)

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07-17-2009, 06:49 PM	#2
Canuck_in_Japan Wizard Posts: 1,475 Karma: 14328611 Join Date: May 2009 Location: Tokyo, Japan Device: Aura, Aura H2O, Kindle PW3	This class action suit makes more sense then the one over the Kindle screen replacement even though they've said they'll do it for free.

07-17-2009, 10:38 PM	#4
carld Wizard Posts: 2,698 Karma: 4748723 Join Date: Dec 2007 Device: Kindle Paperwhite	Regarding your proposed class action suit. Just. Stop. I mean really, rolls eyes

07-18-2009, 05:17 AM	#8
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	To the original poster: might I respectfully suggest that it you feel the need to persecute someone, it should be the person who illegally uploaded the material to Amazon. They are the ones who did wrong, not Amazon. In removing the illegal material and refunded the purchasers' money Amazon have done precisely the right thing. Forget the law - it was the right thing to do.

07-18-2009, 06:02 AM	#9
Slow_hand Groupie Posts: 190 Karma: 326 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Baltimore Device: Amazon Kindle 2	OP - get lost. You don't even have a horse in the race and you want to stir it up.

07-18-2009, 06:07 AM	#10
doreenjoy 01000100 01001010 Posts: 1,889 Karma: 2400000 Join Date: Mar 2009 Device: Polyamorous	No need to be rude here. "A" for effort to the OP.

07-18-2009, 07:45 AM	#14
ladyjane I hate to clean Posts: 125 Karma: 1155 Join Date: May 2009 Location: Burlington, ontario Device: Sony PRS-505, Acer NetBook	here in Canada , you buy something stolen and are found out..you loose..end of story. no money back..no sorry ..

07-18-2009, 08:49 AM	#15
Mr. Goodbar Wizard Posts: 1,005 Karma: 98078 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Atlanta, GA Device: iPad Mini 4	In the U.S. it is also illegal to buy stolen property. Now you could argue that it was unknown that it was stolen and you bought from a reputable seller, but the bottom line is still that it is stolen property. The publisher did not legally own the rights to distribute the book. Amazon maybe should have notified people first, but I don't think this is as big a deal as some people are making it out to be.

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