Amazon backs down on gay porn ebook burning, shock horror probe!

[mr ploppy]

Jamthecat seems to have been chased away by the Angry Kindle Mob, otherwise he probably would have posted this himself.

http://jamthecat.blogspot.com/2011/0...n-silence.html

[Kali Yuga]

Well, I for one am downright stunned that Amazon says they'll reinstate his books. I did not think they'd change their minds, so in that respect I consider myself corrected.

Unfortunately, if he was correct that a local media outlet's attention got it pulled in the first place, this may not be over. Don't alert the media, I guess.

[CWatkinsNash]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

Well, I for one am downright stunned that Amazon says they'll reinstate his books. I did not think they'd change their minds, so in that respect I consider myself corrected.

Unfortunately, if he was correct that a local media outlet's attention got it pulled in the first place, this may not be over. Don't alert the media, I guess.

As far as the media involved goes, since Amazon apparently changed their mind after reading the content, I'd guess they have three choices if they choose to respond:

1)Continue to not examine the content and stand by their assertion that it's porn;
2) Examine the content and maintain their assertion; or
3) Examine the content and revise their assertion.

#1 could affect their credibility (ignoring for the moment whether or not they had any to begin with - apparently someone thinks so if that's how this started), #2 would put them on shakier ground than their initial assertion that it's porn, and #3 probably isn't likely to happen unless they really are worried about a lawsuit or they get publicly taken to task by their viewers.

My money says that they ignore it altogether and hope it goes away, unless they are forced to deal with it through litigation. It's one thing to make a pornography accusation the way they did, that's (sadly) typical media sensationalism, but it's another thing to come back and do it again without saying exactly what they mean by "pornography" or admitting that it's a subjective opinion, which could change the game.

I'm interested to see how it all plays out.

[caleb72]

I had suspected that Amazon's original action was more likely to be an error than a genuine branding of these books to be inappropriate. It just seemed unlikely to me that after a more thorough investigation Amazon would find either of these books worthy of pulling from sale. Of course, I would still wonder what would be worthy of pulling from sale, but that's another discussion.

I'm very happy for the author and I hope that's the end of it for him.

Regards
Caleb

[carld]

I just checked, and the two dropped books are listed again, but do not have pricing information and I'm assuming are not currently buyable.

[wvcherrybomb]

Just curious what the titles of the books were that were so misleading?

There's lots of gay porn on Amazon. I found it by accident when searching for a title with the word "boys" in it. Lots of straight porn too so I don't see how it can be said that it's banned. Or maybe I'm confusing porn with erotica...

[CWatkinsNash]

How to Rape a Straight Guy
Rape in Holding Cell 6 Pt. 1

I would put links but Amazon seems to have changed the link ID just in the past hour so they may do so again.

[wvcherrybomb]

Originally Posted by CWatkinsNash

How to Rape a Straight Guy
Rape in Holding Cell 6 Pt. 1.

Thanks. Maybe it was the "How to" they objected to?

I mean seriously, the last two books I've read have rape of underage girls in them. One fiction, one not. These aren't erotic type books, just part of the story in both.

And I already know it's not the gay angle. Only thing left is the "How to"

They're clearly cracking down on MANUALS.

[CWatkinsNash]

Originally Posted by wvcherrybomb

Thanks. Maybe it was the "How to" they objected to?

I mean seriously, the last two books I've read have rape of underage girls in them. One fiction, one not. These aren't erotic type books, just part of the story in both.

And I already know it's not the gay angle. Only thing left is the "How to"

They're clearly cracking down on MANUALS.

Yeah, I think it was a reactive thing, then when they actually read the content they realized that you can't always judge a book by it's title. At least, that's my guess.

[GA Russell]

Originally Posted by wvcherrybomb

Or maybe I'm confusing porn with erotica...

What's the difference between porn and erotica? I thought both words referred to the same books.

[ATDrake]

Erotica's supposed to be classier: the literary fiction of porn. Kind of like the way Margaret Atwood and Ray Bradbury and Kurt Vonnegut and their snootier supporters like to lift their genre-riffic works out of the sci-fi ghetto and pretend they never belonged there.

Of course, one's mileage may vary and thus get the erotica equivalent of Terry Goodkind and J.K. Rowling insisting that they don't write fantasy, just novels which happen to have wizards and dragons and magic in them.

[caleb72]

I think authors of erotica might say that the difference between the two is the presence of storyline and character development in erotica as opposed to just presenting a sexual tableau for the reader.

Both are supposed to arouse the read, but erotica wants to achieve more than just arousal, it wants to allow you to develop a rapport with the characters, to give the events of the story meaning.

Anyway - I'm blah blahing a bit because I've struggled a little with the difference myself.

The next distinction would be the difference between erotica and fiction that happens to have explicit sex scenes.

Regards
Caleb

[OtterBooks]

What's the difference between porn and erotica?

Erotica has more foreplay.

The next distinction would be the difference between erotica and fiction that happens to have explicit sex scenes.

In the latter, sex is tragic.

[whitearrow]

Originally Posted by GA Russell

What's the difference between porn and erotica?

"I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description [hard core pornography]; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it...." (Jacobellis v. Ohio (1964) 378 U.S. 184, 197 (conc. opn. of Stewart, J.) (italics added).)

[CWatkinsNash]

Originally Posted by whitearrow

"I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description [hard core pornography]; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it...." (Jacobellis v. Ohio (1964) 378 U.S. 184, 197 (conc. opn. of Stewart, J.) (italics added).)

I was wondering if someone would post this. I've avoided answering this question and Stewart's opinion on this case is a perfect example of why.

I know a few ladies who sputter about obscenity and pornography, but heaven help anyone who says a word about their equally titillating romance novels. It's a can o' worms, for sure. I tend to think of porn as depictions of actual people (whether photos or video or even audio) and erotica as text or illustrations, but as I don't have a problem with either porn or erotica (provided no one was harmed in the making of it), my thoughts usually aren't helpful for the purposes of this discussion. Usually when someone asks "what is porn?" or "what is the difference?" they are looking for a place to draw a line of acceptability (not saying that is the case here, but in life in general).

Some people would define erotica as "things with sex that I don't have a problem with" and porn as "things with sex that I DO have a problem with". Others would define porn as "anything with sex 'cause sex is bad!" or "anything with sex that didn't come from Harlequin".

I much prefer my definitions - format or medium is not subjective.