why so emotional about the kindle?

[mrsp]

Originally Posted by HarryT

No, most of the world uses the internationally standard GSM technology for its phone networks, not the proprietory CDMA technology of EVDO. Many developing nations are jumping fixed-line networks altogether and going straight to GSM for their phone systems. Much of the "third world" has pretty good GSM coverage.

Slightly off topic...

Here in Australia, CDMA is being switched off I think at the start of 2008. I just tried to google EVDO to see what it actually is and by the sounds of it, its less advanced than our next G network because people who were on EVDO got upgraded to next G. Next G is a highspeed broadband wireless network and one of the promo ads features Dustin Hoffman losing service on his cell phone and being told by an Australian girl that it would never happen in Australia (very contentious and they got pinged for misleading advertising).

Point is, Kindle's US-centric focus is old technology - I think but am not sure?? We also have GPRS over GSM but this is regarded as inferior to the next G (although its what my hiptop uses and is nice and cheap).

If the kindle was available here, I would buy it even with the usuage restrictions because it does everything I want my reader to do - books, newspapers and magazines and there wherever and whenever I want them.

If the device itself in terms of the hardware like the screen, lasted for 3 to 5 years without wearing out, it probably wouldn't matter to me that my books couldn't go with me as I rarely reread them. And the fact that its not available to me has me far far more disappointed and thanks to bookeen's euro-centric price gouging I've been pretty disappointed with the ebook world lately...

[Alisa]

I really hope they start offering a region-neutral WiFi option soon. I understand why they went with EVDO for a US launch. Folks don't seem to want to retire that standard here. I was on a GSM network here for years and had so many coverage issues I actually went back to a CDMA provider for the time being. Irksome as that may be to my techie heart I figure it at least has another 5-10 years here before it goes the way of the dodo and that's probably less time than I shall have this phone (sad as that may be). If they did the hardware right, a network hardware switch to WiFi shouldn't be a difficult change and they wouldn't have to get it through numerous regulatory bodies and partnerships to do multiple launches. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

But it raises an interesting question to me: Is this thing RoHS compliant?

[drgnbear]

I ordered one on release day. I didn't expect to but the darn thing was just too sweet. I wish I had waited to buy my 505 but at least I will have something to read the Sony files I bought. I hope one device becomes the defacto standard soon I am sick of re-buying books every time a new device comes out.

As for the Aesthetics I love it. I didn't love the FCC pics but seeing the video and seeing it being used I changed my mind.

[resistor]

Originally Posted by mrsp

Point is, Kindle's US-centric focus is old technology - I think but am not sure?? We also have GPRS over GSM but this is regarded as inferior to the next G (although its what my hiptop uses and is nice and cheap).

That's not really true. Here's a brief overview of cellular technology:

1G: Purely analog. Useable for data only as a dial-up modem.

2G:
GSM - Widely deployed in most countries with cellular infrastructure.
CDMA - Widely deployed in the US, but not elsewhere.

Neither GSM nor CDMA is strictly better than the other. Wikipedia has a good overview of the advantages and disadvantages of each here. In general, GSM is more flexible and open, while CDMA has better capacity and scalability.

GSM Data: GPRS
CDMA Data: 1xRTT
Both GPRS and 1xRTT offer data speeds (usually) higher than dial-up, depending on the variation of each that your provider and your phone uses.

3G (high-speed data):
GSM: HSDPA/HSUPA
CDMA: EVDO

The voice components are called UMTS and CDMA2000 respectively.

3G technology builds on 2G to offer broadband-level data rates. Generally speaking, the throughput on these networks peak around the speed of a low- to mid-range DSL or cable line.

4G (HIGH high-speed data):
GSM: LTE
CDMA: UMB

4G technology is not yet widely deployed anywhere, but (at least in theory) offers bandwidth well in excess of normal broadband speeds. How well it will deliver on that in practice remains to be seen.



Now, returning to your point: NextG is actually not a change of generation. They're just switching from the CDMA family to the GSM family, without changing generations. UMTS and CDMA2000 simply have different things that each is better at. UMTS is generally better in hilly terrain, while CDMA2000 generally has fewer dropped calls under "normal" conditions, etc.

Any claims that "NextG" (and, in fact, the name itself) is better is purely marketing spin.

[resistor]

Sorry. Don't know how that happened. I just used to "quote" button.

[mrsp]

Originally Posted by resistor

Any claims that "NextG" (and, in fact, the name itself) is better is purely marketing spin.

Hey thanks Resistor for explaining it all - I knew I probably didn't have it quite right.

The phone company in question is much better at spin than they are at providing either good prices or good service and our regulators have had at them over some aspects of their marketing so what you say doesn't surprise me at all.

I guess for Amazon to negotiate the carrier contracts outside the US is probably a big hurdle just like I suspect local copyright laws and distribution deals etc make it hard to negotiate with publishers for ebooks outside the US. Its a bit like iTunes in Australia where you cannot get movies even though Apple actually advertise iPods with pictures of Pirates of the Carribean on the box - this is my husband's favourite movie(s) and being unable to get them from iTunes has really put him off the lovely iPod I got him for his birthday (luckily for me )

And don't even get me started on the control that the local tv networks exert on TV shows. Its turned a lot of people to piracy just so they can get the content that they want to view. Its not available legally except if and when the networks choose to broadcast it (and they axed my favourite show 3 episodes into the new season - cannot publicly admit which show ) or if you shell out for DVDs and I'm pretty sure ripping them is against the rules too.

[Alexander Turcic]

Originally Posted by resistor

Sorry. Don't know how that happened. I just used to "quote" button.

No worries, seems like you hit quote twice somewhere. I fixed the quote contribution

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by resistor

That's not really true. Here's a brief overview of cellular technology:

1G: Purely analog. Useable for data only as a dial-up modem.

2G:
GSM - Widely deployed in most countries with cellular infrastructure.
CDMA - Widely deployed in the US, but not elsewhere.

Neither GSM nor CDMA is strictly better than the other. Wikipedia has a good overview of the advantages and disadvantages of each here. In general, GSM is more flexible and open, while CDMA has better capacity and scalability.

GSM Data: GPRS
CDMA Data: 1xRTT
Both GPRS and 1xRTT offer data speeds (usually) higher than dial-up, depending on the variation of each that your provider and your phone uses.

3G (high-speed data):
GSM: HSDPA/HSUPA
CDMA: EVDO

The voice components are called UMTS and CDMA2000 respectively.

3G technology builds on 2G to offer broadband-level data rates. Generally speaking, the throughput on these networks peak around the speed of a low- to mid-range DSL or cable line.

4G (HIGH high-speed data):
GSM: LTE
CDMA: UMB

4G technology is not yet widely deployed anywhere, but (at least in theory) offers bandwidth well in excess of normal broadband speeds. How well it will deliver on that in practice remains to be seen.



Now, returning to your point: NextG is actually not a change of generation. They're just switching from the CDMA family to the GSM family, without changing generations. UMTS and CDMA2000 simply have different things that each is better at. UMTS is generally better in hilly terrain, while CDMA2000 generally has fewer dropped calls under "normal" conditions, etc.

Any claims that "NextG" (and, in fact, the name itself) is better is purely marketing spin.

Excellent overview. Could you post it in the mobileRead wiki please.

Dale

[zartemis]

Originally Posted by zartemis

I'd be sympathetic if they said they made a mistake and listed it in stock even when they didn't have any more (maybe they miscounted or some of them were damaged), and were instead shipping it in the next batch, but to bump me way to the end of the line? It's really poor service. I've gotten no response to my question to them asking why.

Just an update. I have gotten a response, but now they keep making promises and don't keep them. On my first query, I was assured it would ship yesterday (the 20th) and my order entered the "shipping soon" state that day (with expected delivery of the 30th!). But yesterday came and went and no shipment. I asked again and was told it would ship today (21st) -- still no tracking number yet.

Remember -- I ordered this while it was still IN STOCK on the site with overnight shipping! Meanwhile people who ordered after me already have theirs in hand. Very frustrating.

[zartemis]

Originally Posted by zartemis

Just an update. I have gotten a response, but now they keep making promises and don't keep them....

Remember -- I ordered this while it was still IN STOCK on the site with overnight shipping!

And a happier, and hopefully final, update:

I followed up my email to Amazon customer support with a phone call and spoke with a nice gentleman who informed me that while I had been promised shipping dates of the 19th, then the 20th, and then the 21st, that it wasn't going to ship until the 29th. He offered a $15 gift certificate for the problems, but I said what I really wanted was for it to ship today (21st) if at all possible so I could have it before the weekend. And that their site claims it is "first come first serve" and I ordered when it was in stock.

He then offered to send a note to the warehouse with information on when the order was placed and asking for it to be shipped today and that he would follow up personally with any reply. I accepted that (since I'd prefer a chance at early shipping over $15).

A few hours later I got a DHL tracking number as well as email from another Amazon customer service person apologizing for the delay, confirming shipment, refunding the overnight shipping fee, and crediting my account with a token (but appreciated, since I did not ask for any extra credit) $5. DHL lists it as "in transit" with next day service (so I'll get it Friday, the 23rd).

[astra]

Originally Posted by zartemis

A few hours later I got a DHL tracking number as well as email from another Amazon customer service person apologizing for the delay, confirming shipment, refunding the overnight shipping fee, and crediting my account with a token (but appreciated, since I did not ask for any extra credit) $5. DHL lists it as "in transit" with next day service (so I'll get it Friday, the 23rd).

Well done, Amazon!

[HappyMartin]

Why am I emotional about the kindle?

Well it is so ugly and it is has bad bad DRM and Amazon have got it all wrong and it is white for goodness sakes and how will anyone ever keep it clean and whats with the keyboard and I already own an Iliad and what if I cant get access to all those cool Amazon titles and perhaps the kindle will be better than the iliad and cheaper too and what if I made a mistake when I bought the iliad and now the cybook as well and now the kindle wont be available in South Africa and everyone else will have more fun than me and at a lower cost and I will lose all my friends and my wife and everything is going to be awful and thats why I am emotional about the kindle.

[HarryT]

But other than that it's OK?

[lubberts]

I definitely agree with the feelings of the original poster. After reading about the Kindle, personally, I was stoked. It sounded like there were a few downsides to the device, but more reasons to buy than reasons to avoid. I have more than one on the way, unfortunately esitmated to be here on or around the 10th of december, but it is on the way with no reservations nonetheless.
It felt like, everywhere I've read about the device (here, gizmodo, engadget, and the actual reviews on amazon) there was excess harshness about the device, and about Amazon. Most of the negative reviews I read were coming from people who have not ever owned an e-ink device for reading books in the past (and therefore do not have an accurate gage of what the other options are if you ARE going to own one, not just considering purchasing one), and from people who don't even own or haven't ever used the Kindle. At least that seems to be what I've noticed. That is a personal pet peeve of mine, if you don't have one, don't review one. Post your opinions in a forum by all means, but please don't review the product on the actual website. It's called a review. As in "review your EXPERIENCE with the product". It's not called a "why aren't you planning on getting one". grr. But I digress...
Honestly I don't understand all the hubub surrounding the DRM for the books, and the .azw format. I should mention though, I don't really get all fired up about drm'd music files either. It is the nature of the beast with electronic media in this day and age.

It seems like a circle, People are pissed at the DRM and format, because they want to get in on all the cheap multitudes of books that are going to be available, but do you really think that all of the publisher/authors would have agreed to make the multitudes available, or amazon would have decided to sell them at cheap prices if they did not have that same DRM and format? This is a business, not charity.
You can't have your cake and eat it too, and personally, I'd rather have tons of books to choose from to read on my one kindle device, than be able to read around 10,000 books I'm not interested in on any device of my choosing.
just my 2 cents.

As for the design, yes it's "butt ugly" as my nephew put it, but honestly, and forgive me if I over-generalize here, but as one the people who read enough books to truly justify the purchase of this device, are we really all that concerned with appearances? Really? I'm tidy, and not a slob by any means, usually I match...for the most part...at least I think I do...but I am no fashionista, I purchase my shoes at payless, or on sale, I judge the worth of a coat or pair of pants on the number and quality of pockets, and I'm not afraid to admit that I have purchased clothes at wal-mart and target on many more than one occasion. (the less I spend on clothing, the more I can spend on books, am I right?)
Realistically, if it were pretty, I'd probably get fewer odd looks while reading, but I've been getting odd looks while reading all my life, it really isn't going to deter me from enjoying the heck of my Kindle!
My iPhone gets noticed because it's pretty, I hope that people don't interrupt me in the middle of reading to ask about my Kindle like they do in the middle of conversations on my iPhone. So maybe the ugly is a benefit?
So, why is there so much...passion...about the kindle online? I can tell you it's not coming from me, and I noticed the outpouring of...opinions... as well, but I really have no explanation for it. Just more buzz this time around I'd suspect.

[jasonkchapman]

Originally Posted by lubberts

So, why is there so much...passion...about the kindle online?

You realize that your own post can hardly be considered dispassionate, don't you? A lot of the recent passion about the Kindle on MobileRead has come from people who seem to have registered for the sole purpose of discussing comments posted on Amazon's site.

As usual, for the most part, the discussions on MobileRead have been predominately objective. A great many have been quite positive. (Many MR regulars have already bought Kindles.) That makes sense for a forum that is as likely to discuss an industry in general as it is to discuss any specific unit.

You want passion? Look up some of the old threads on DRM. Or, for a real thrill ride, do a search for "backlight" threads. Oh, the humanity.