Should high school students have to read Shakespeare?

ficbot · 03-24-2011, 07:48 PM

I was getting caught up with the kid brother the other day (he's 17) and among our discussion topics was what he's reading in school. We both like to read; he is an amateur writer too and of course everyone in the family likes to encourage this. So when he said they were studying Romeo and Juliet, I mentioned that play was a favourite of mine and asked him what he thought of it. So then we have the following conversation:

Him: Which version?

Me: What do you mean, which version? The PLAY.

Him: Well, we saw the movie. The one with Leonardo DiCaprio.

Me: (sinking feeling) And then you read the play after?

Him: Well, it was a graphic novel.

Me: And?

Him: And then we did a project.

It turns out that they never actually read the real play! Not even a snippet of it. They saw the modern movie, they read a graphic novel adaptation and that was it! Am I the only one who thinks that is completely wrong? We read a play a year---the REAL version--when I went through high school. It was part of the curriculum. I understand not everyone is a literature nerd and some kids might find the language quaint. I can understand hooking them in with Leonardo DiCaprio. But then after that, you give them the real play, no?

My dad was equally horrified, fwiw, and as soon as dinner was done, went up to his office, got the real play off his bookshelf and gave it to little bro to read. But...the 'graphic novel' version? Really?

spellbanisher · 03-24-2011, 07:51 PM

Doesn't the Leonardo Dicaprio version use the Shakespearian language? If it does I do not see a problem with seeing Shakespeare movies instead of reading them. After all, his plays were meant to be seen and not read.

AlbertaCowboy · 03-24-2011, 08:01 PM

Personally, I detested "Romeo & Juliet" when we took it in grade 10*. I would have welcomed the Leo movie version, or the graphic novel. That having been said, however, I believe that if the play is in the curriculum, it should be presented as such in it's original form. Using movies and graphic novels as a supplement is fine, but the original play should be studied and analyzed. I am a bit of an alarmist, and think that substituting the original work with an adaptation or an abridgment is the first teeny tiny little stumble down the very slippery slope of bowdlerization and censorship.

*Not that I dislike Shakespeare, by the way. I adored Macbeth when I read it for the first time in grade 11, and was fascinated by Hamlet in grade 12.

spellbanisher · 03-24-2011, 08:08 PM

This is a nice little post about how to read Shakespeare:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joseph..._b_524544.html

wodin · 03-24-2011, 08:21 PM

Mrs. Hartwig, my high school English teacher made us read Macbeth, then we dissected it line by line in class. Being a typical teenager, I didn’t see the value in it; but as the years progress I have come to value that experience more and more.

However, I still don’t for the life of me understand what I could have possibly gotten out of Beowulf!

spellbanisher · 03-24-2011, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wodin

However, I still don’t for the life of me understand what I could have possibly gotten out of Beowulf!

Loud music and partying late at night attracts monsters.

roobot5000 · 03-24-2011, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wodin

However, I still don’t for the life of me understand what I could have possibly gotten out of Beowulf!

whoa! them's fighting words!

ha.

poohbear_nc · 03-24-2011, 08:27 PM

Anyone remember Classic Comics? I was introduced to Shakespeare by reading "A Midsummer's Night Dream" as a comic - it didn't dumb down the dialogue but used the actual Shakespearean text - I loved it! Afterwards, when I later read it in text form, I had those pictures in my head! A marvelous experience.

wvcherrybomb · 03-24-2011, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlbertaCowboy

I believe that if the play is in the curriculum, it should be presented as such in it's original form. Using movies and graphic novels as a supplement is fine, but the original play should be studied and analyzed.

I absolutely agree. As the mother of a high school student, I am going to ask a few questions. I hope this is not a wide-spread problem.

wyndslash · 03-24-2011, 08:37 PM

well, i think that after their curiosity was piqued by the movies and graphic novels, they could then have tackled the real text, since the students would have had a basic understanding of the plot

FizzyWater · 03-24-2011, 08:48 PM

The only time I understood Shakespeare in high school was my 10th grade year when the teacher made us read them out loud in class. If I remember, we did Julius Caesar and Midsummer's Night Dream. It made a huge difference to me to have them read aloud and to have the teacher stop occasionally and explain some of the more obscure passages.

Hamlet53 · 03-24-2011, 08:58 PM

Well as I see it there are two reasons to read Shakespeare:

To achieve a common education in our literature and culture.
To enhance reading ability, expand vocabulary, and teach the ability to grasp and analyze the written word.

While a visual presentation may accomplish the first, though in my opinion not as well it reading the play as film is a once through fast paced experience, it does nothing for the second.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wodin

Mrs. Hartwig, my high school English teacher made us read Macbeth, then we dissected it line by line in class. Being a typical teenager, I didn’t see the value in it; but as the years progress I have come to value that experience more and more.

However, I still don’t for the life of me understand what I could have possibly gotten out of Beowulf!

Wodin, you really should give Beowulf as translated by Seamus Heaney a try. Excellent.
Especially since, if I may assume, you are a LOTR fan.

DixieGal · 03-24-2011, 09:01 PM

I think the article was full of scat. It is absolutely not necessary to understand every nuance of each word for the casual non-scholar.

I lead newbies to the plays in a specific way. First, forget iambic pentameter, rhyme, poetry, and all, and just read it through as paragraphs, instead of lines of a poem. You can see the lightbulb go on in their faces when it becomes a regular play for them and is suddenly accessible to anyone.

I miss teaching. Sigh.

Catlady · 03-24-2011, 09:10 PM

When I was in high school back in the Dark Ages, in English class we listened to records (yes! genuine LPs!) of Hamlet and Macbeth--I think performed by Richard Burton. We would read along as we listened. It was a wonderful way to learn the play; we didn't get all caught up in the difficult language but could understand the meaning because of the skill of the performer. And of course we'd stop to discuss and ask questions. These are the first two Shakespearean plays I ever read and the two that I still remember best.

I think there are some terrific movie versions of Shakespeare--but they should enhance the experience of reading the plays, not replace them.

Joykins · 03-24-2011, 09:17 PM

It's actually kind of hard for me to speak to this because I was in a Shakespearean troupe in high school.

I think Shakespeare is best performed, and, if read, read aloud and perhaps even blocked out a little. And read with a dirty mind, too, you need someone who can read "the bawdy hand of the dial is now upon the prick of noon." and crack the class up" because sexual wordplay/jokes is one of the things Shakespeare does really well (and usually well-appreciated by teenagers).

I think you probably want to combine watching the movie, reading aloud, and a performance project.

03-24-2011, 07:48 PM	#1
ficbot Wizard Posts: 2,409 Karma: 4132096 Join Date: Sep 2008 Device: Kindle Paperwhite/iOS Kindle App	Should high school students have to read Shakespeare? I was getting caught up with the kid brother the other day (he's 17) and among our discussion topics was what he's reading in school. We both like to read; he is an amateur writer too and of course everyone in the family likes to encourage this. So when he said they were studying Romeo and Juliet, I mentioned that play was a favourite of mine and asked him what he thought of it. So then we have the following conversation: Him: Which version? Me: What do you mean, which version? The PLAY. Him: Well, we saw the movie. The one with Leonardo DiCaprio. Me: (sinking feeling) And then you read the play after? Him: Well, it was a graphic novel. Me: And? Him: And then we did a project. It turns out that they never actually read the real play! Not even a snippet of it. They saw the modern movie, they read a graphic novel adaptation and that was it! Am I the only one who thinks that is completely wrong? We read a play a year---the REAL version--when I went through high school. It was part of the curriculum. I understand not everyone is a literature nerd and some kids might find the language quaint. I can understand hooking them in with Leonardo DiCaprio. But then after that, you give them the real play, no? My dad was equally horrified, fwiw, and as soon as dinner was done, went up to his office, got the real play off his bookshelf and gave it to little bro to read. But...the 'graphic novel' version? Really?

03-24-2011, 09:10 PM	#14
Catlady Grand Sorcerer Posts: 7,345 Karma: 52398889 Join Date: Oct 2010 Device: Kindle Fire, Kindle Paperwhite, AGPTek Bluetooth Clip	When I was in high school back in the Dark Ages, in English class we listened to records (yes! genuine LPs!) of Hamlet and Macbeth--I think performed by Richard Burton. We would read along as we listened. It was a wonderful way to learn the play; we didn't get all caught up in the difficult language but could understand the meaning because of the skill of the performer. And of course we'd stop to discuss and ask questions. These are the first two Shakespearean plays I ever read and the two that I still remember best. I think there are some terrific movie versions of Shakespeare--but they should enhance the experience of reading the plays, not replace them. Last edited by Catlady; 03-24-2011 at 11:29 PM.

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03-24-2011, 07:51 PM	#2
spellbanisher Guru Posts: 826 Karma: 6566849 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Bay Area Device: kindle keyboard, kindle fire hd, S4, Nook hd+	Doesn't the Leonardo Dicaprio version use the Shakespearian language? If it does I do not see a problem with seeing Shakespeare movies instead of reading them. After all, his plays were meant to be seen and not read.

03-24-2011, 08:01 PM	#3
AlbertaCowboy Guru Posts: 819 Karma: 171672846 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Alberta, Canada Device: PRS-350, PRS-650, iPhone 6, NVIDIA Shield K1	Personally, I detested "Romeo & Juliet" when we took it in grade 10. I would have welcomed the Leo movie version, or the graphic novel. That having been said, however, I believe that if the play is in the curriculum, it should be presented as such in it's original form. Using movies and graphic novels as a supplement is fine, but the original play should be studied and analyzed. I am a bit of an alarmist, and think that substituting the original work with an adaptation or an abridgment is the first teeny tiny little stumble down the very slippery slope of bowdlerization and censorship. Not that I dislike Shakespeare, by the way. I adored Macbeth when I read it for the first time in grade 11, and was fascinated by Hamlet in grade 12.

03-24-2011, 08:08 PM	#4
spellbanisher Guru Posts: 826 Karma: 6566849 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Bay Area Device: kindle keyboard, kindle fire hd, S4, Nook hd+	This is a nice little post about how to read Shakespeare: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joseph..._b_524544.html

03-24-2011, 08:21 PM	#5
wodin Illiterate Posts: 10,279 Karma: 37848716 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: The Sandwich Isles Device: Samsung Galaxy S10+, Microsoft Surface Pro	Mrs. Hartwig, my high school English teacher made us read Macbeth, then we dissected it line by line in class. Being a typical teenager, I didn’t see the value in it; but as the years progress I have come to value that experience more and more. However, I still don’t for the life of me understand what I could have possibly gotten out of Beowulf!

03-24-2011, 08:27 PM	#8
poohbear_nc Now what? Posts: 58,852 Karma: 135181808 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Durham, NC Device: Every Kindle Ever Made & To Be Made!	Anyone remember Classic Comics? I was introduced to Shakespeare by reading "A Midsummer's Night Dream" as a comic - it didn't dumb down the dialogue but used the actual Shakespearean text - I loved it! Afterwards, when I later read it in text form, I had those pictures in my head! A marvelous experience.

03-24-2011, 08:37 PM	#10
wyndslash Wizard Posts: 2,951 Karma: 3000001 Join Date: Feb 2011 Device: Kindle 3 wifi, Kindle Fire	well, i think that after their curiosity was piqued by the movies and graphic novels, they could then have tackled the real text, since the students would have had a basic understanding of the plot

03-24-2011, 08:48 PM	#11
FizzyWater You kids get off my lawn! Posts: 4,220 Karma: 73492664 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Columbus, Ohio Device: Oasis 2 and Libra H2O and half a dozen older models I can't let go of	The only time I understood Shakespeare in high school was my 10th grade year when the teacher made us read them out loud in class. If I remember, we did Julius Caesar and Midsummer's Night Dream. It made a huge difference to me to have them read aloud and to have the teacher stop occasionally and explain some of the more obscure passages.

03-24-2011, 09:01 PM	#13
DixieGal Hi There! Posts: 7,473 Karma: 2930523 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Ft Lauderdale Device: iPad	I think the article was full of scat. It is absolutely not necessary to understand every nuance of each word for the casual non-scholar. I lead newbies to the plays in a specific way. First, forget iambic pentameter, rhyme, poetry, and all, and just read it through as paragraphs, instead of lines of a poem. You can see the lightbulb go on in their faces when it becomes a regular play for them and is suddenly accessible to anyone. I miss teaching. Sigh.

03-24-2011, 09:17 PM	#15
Joykins Wizard Posts: 1,601 Karma: 9211856 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: kindle Oasis 2018, kindle 4 NT, kindle PW2, iPhone, iPad mini	It's actually kind of hard for me to speak to this because I was in a Shakespearean troupe in high school. I think Shakespeare is best performed, and, if read, read aloud and perhaps even blocked out a little. And read with a dirty mind, too, you need someone who can read "the bawdy hand of the dial is now upon the prick of noon." and crack the class up" because sexual wordplay/jokes is one of the things Shakespeare does really well (and usually well-appreciated by teenagers). I think you probably want to combine watching the movie, reading aloud, and a performance project.

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