Absolutely, Positively, Best-Looking?

Timoleon · 09-26-2009, 02:42 PM

If I create a custom pdf for my 6" Sony PRS-505, using Adobe Acrobat with all the bells and whistles it makes available to me, and then send it to my 505 as a pdf --- is this potentially the nicest presentation possible of the written word on this device? All the proper wonderful fonts, a perfect layout without any rivers, images sized and arranged just so, widows and orphans properly fed and clothed, etc...

In other words, if someone wanted to create a masterpiece for the 505, with no thought of being able later to "convert" it to some other format, would a custom-crafted pdf be the way to go? Sort of a "high end" ebook creation.

AnemicOak · 09-26-2009, 02:55 PM

IMO, yes.

Jack Tingle · 09-26-2009, 04:58 PM

My estimate would be yes. In addition, if you're going to that much trouble, tag the PDF and it can be used in other venues, and probably look almost as nice.

The problem with this strategy is that it requires a labor of love for each format, and most publishers just aren't that interested in the ebook business. They use PDF to make the paper book layouts because it interfaces with their presses well, not because it's beautiful.

Regards,
Jack Tingle

Elfwreck · 09-26-2009, 05:24 PM

Yes, that would get the best-looking ebook. The problems include:

If you sometimes read at M in dim light or when your eyes are tired, you lose all that nice formatting,
If you give it to someone else (presuming that's legal), and they prefer a larger or smaller font, it's not the best option for them,
If you later wish to add content--images, annotations, whatever--it's a lot more hassle than adding them to an ePub file.

That said: I make PDFs to my preferences, make sure they're tagged (so I can reflow, even if I generally prefer not to), include bookmarks for a TOC, set the title & author as I'd like it listed in the Reader, link the TOC page to the doc pages (if I feel like going all-out), and then set the PDF to open to facing pages, bookmarks showing, show doc title instead of filename.

This allows someone else opening the file on their computer with Acrobat Reader to see a "book," opened as two facing pages, with the TOC off to the side.

frabjous · 09-27-2009, 01:01 PM

I definitely think that custom-made PDF looks the best on the reader. The only tool you mentioned for making the PDF, however, is Acrobat, and Acrobat by itself isn't a typesetting system.

My personal preference would be pdfLaTeX (free) for creating the PDF. Depending on your source file format, however, that might be a fair bit of work. You might consider Prince XML (free for personal use) instead for HTML or XML-based source files. Those will give you ligatures, kerning, end of line hyphenation, widow/orphan control. Not sure if they, or any widely available software, will do stacks/river control without hand tweaking. Maybe Scribus (free) or InDesign($$)?

ahi · 09-29-2009, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Tingle

if you're going to that much trouble, tag the PDF

How does one "tag" the PDF?

I know what tagging is... but I'm yet to figure out how to actually do it... other than what seems like Acrobat Pro's occasional offer to automatically tag it for you... a suggestion that seems to defeat the purpose of tagging (i.e.: a human being manually specifying how/if certain content should reflow).

So... does anybody have a link to a specific way of doing this either with Adobe Pro or other reasonably accessible tools?

- Ahi

frabjous · 09-29-2009, 12:55 PM

How about this?

http://river-valley.tv/towards-tagged-pdf/

OK, so that's not a "reasonably accessible tool", but I think it's pretty cool that they put this lecture online.

ahi · 09-29-2009, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frabjous

How about this?

http://river-valley.tv/towards-tagged-pdf/

OK, so that's not a "reasonably accessible tool", but I think it's pretty cool that they put this lecture online.

Yes... very cool. Alas, the impression I have gotten from anyone I've spoken to is that TeX of any flavour is potentially years away from producing tagged PDFs. :-(

So, to me, the practical question in the meantime is... how does one tag an already prepared PDF?

- Ahi

AnemicOak · 09-29-2009, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahi

So, to me, the practical question in the meantime is... how does one tag an already prepared PDF?

Ok, I've never done this but have been looking a bit through the Acrobat 9 help files and it sounds like, besides 'auto tagging', you can use the 'TouchUp Reading Order tool' to do this.

I don't know if these links will work if you don't have Acrobat installed or not...
http://help.adobe.com/en_US/Acrobat/...ff-7d07.w.html

http://help.adobe.com/en_US/Acrobat/...ff-7cff.w.html

http://help.adobe.com/en_US/Acrobat/...ff-7cf3.w.html

ahi · 09-29-2009, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

Ok, I've never done this but have been looking a bit through the Acrobat 9 help files and it sounds like, besides 'auto tagging', you can use the 'TouchUp Reading Order tool' to do this.

I don't know if these links will work if you don't have Acrobat installed or not...
http://help.adobe.com/en_US/Acrobat/...ff-7d07.w.html

http://help.adobe.com/en_US/Acrobat/...ff-7cff.w.html

http://help.adobe.com/en_US/Acrobat/...ff-7cf3.w.html

That seems to be the answer... thanks!

I'll report back as to what comes of it.

- Ahi

09-26-2009, 02:42 PM	#1
Timoleon Time Enough at Last Posts: 387 Karma: 1151316 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: New England Device: iPad 3, iPhone 5, Kindle 3, Fire, Sony PRS-350	Absolutely, Positively, Best-Looking? If I create a custom pdf for my 6" Sony PRS-505, using Adobe Acrobat with all the bells and whistles it makes available to me, and then send it to my 505 as a pdf --- is this potentially the nicest presentation possible of the written word on this device? All the proper wonderful fonts, a perfect layout without any rivers, images sized and arranged just so, widows and orphans properly fed and clothed, etc... In other words, if someone wanted to create a masterpiece for the 505, with no thought of being able later to "convert" it to some other format, would a custom-crafted pdf be the way to go? Sort of a "high end" ebook creation.

09-26-2009, 05:24 PM	#4
Elfwreck Grand Sorcerer Posts: 5,185 Karma: 25133758 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: SF Bay Area, California, USA Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3 (Past: Kobo Mini, PEZ, PRS-505, Clié)	Yes, that would get the best-looking ebook. The problems include: If you sometimes read at M in dim light or when your eyes are tired, you lose all that nice formatting, If you give it to someone else (presuming that's legal), and they prefer a larger or smaller font, it's not the best option for them, If you later wish to add content--images, annotations, whatever--it's a lot more hassle than adding them to an ePub file. That said: I make PDFs to my preferences, make sure they're tagged (so I can reflow, even if I generally prefer not to), include bookmarks for a TOC, set the title & author as I'd like it listed in the Reader, link the TOC page to the doc pages (if I feel like going all-out), and then set the PDF to open to facing pages, bookmarks showing, show doc title instead of filename. This allows someone else opening the file on their computer with Acrobat Reader to see a "book," opened as two facing pages, with the TOC off to the side.

09-27-2009, 01:01 PM	#5
frabjous Wizard Posts: 1,213 Karma: 12890 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Amherst, Massachusetts, USA Device: Sony PRS-505	I definitely think that custom-made PDF looks the best on the reader. The only tool you mentioned for making the PDF, however, is Acrobat, and Acrobat by itself isn't a typesetting system. My personal preference would be pdfLaTeX (free) for creating the PDF. Depending on your source file format, however, that might be a fair bit of work. You might consider Prince XML (free for personal use) instead for HTML or XML-based source files. Those will give you ligatures, kerning, end of line hyphenation, widow/orphan control. Not sure if they, or any widely available software, will do stacks/river control without hand tweaking. Maybe Scribus (free) or InDesign($$)? Last edited by frabjous; 09-27-2009 at 01:03 PM.

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09-26-2009, 02:55 PM	#2
AnemicOak Bookaholic Posts: 14,391 Karma: 54969924 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Minnesota Device: iPad Mini 4, AuraHD, iPhone XR +	IMO, yes.

09-26-2009, 04:58 PM	#3
Jack Tingle Punctuation Fetishist Posts: 557 Karma: 1070000 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: The Bluest Commonwealth In East America Device: Kindle PW, Nexus 7 (2013), Galaxy S5 phone, Galaxy Tab 4 8.0	My estimate would be yes. In addition, if you're going to that much trouble, tag the PDF and it can be used in other venues, and probably look almost as nice. The problem with this strategy is that it requires a labor of love for each format, and most publishers just aren't that interested in the ebook business. They use PDF to make the paper book layouts because it interfaces with their presses well, not because it's beautiful. Regards, Jack Tingle

09-29-2009, 12:55 PM	#7
frabjous Wizard Posts: 1,213 Karma: 12890 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Amherst, Massachusetts, USA Device: Sony PRS-505	How about this? http://river-valley.tv/towards-tagged-pdf/ OK, so that's not a "reasonably accessible tool", but I think it's pretty cool that they put this lecture online.