No Adobe ePub for Kindle? Really?!?!?!?

[reech]

Take 2 iPads, and call me in the morning.

[GoSharks]

Originally Posted by reech

Take 2 iPads, and call me in the morning.

But will you still respect him in the morning?????

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by ATDrake

Actually, as of 1.5, Kindle Previewer does auto-convert ePubs that are drag-and-dropped onto it. But it does so using an internal version of KindleGen, which incidentally, is now up to 1.2 and can do page numbers if the mapping info is included in the NCX.

And yet when I try to email myself an epub to free.kindle.com Amazon rejects the epub, even though we both know that the epub is perfectly capable of being read on the Kindle!!

[mickeyfinn]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Nice. Now you've gone and hurt my feeling.

My friend, as you are probably aware, there are no secrets on the Internet. Ask any PI.

I may not know ereaders but I surely know how to glean info from what other people might consider unlikely sources.

After that trace backs are simple. They might cost a few sheckels ... but
they are often worth it.

Take care now.

<<This user has been banned... MR Moderation Team>>

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by montalex

That seems kind of silly. Why blame Amazon? It is publishers who insist on protecting their rights and the rights of authors. If you buy a paper book, you can't share it with 5,000 people. It is easy to do this with a non-DRMed ebook, completely undermining the livelihoods of both writer and publisher. Yes, of course it would be better if Amazon offered multiple formats. But it is incredibly naive to imagine anyone whose business it is to write, publish or sell books would give them out for free (which is exactly what happens with non-DRMed books).

That said, my whole library is deDRMed, but only so that I can read my books on any ereader, not so that I can share them on the internet. I like writers, and I want to support them.

You totally missed the point. Go back and read what I said. The point is not about DRM being there to stop eBook sharing. The point is that Amazon is trying to get exclusive access to eBooks. This means that if Amazon has their way, a lot of eBooks would not be available to people who do not read Amazon eBooks.

Now do you see the point?

[montalex]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

You totally missed the point. Go back and read what I said. The point is not about DRM being there to stop eBook sharing. The point is that Amazon is trying to get exclusive access to eBooks. This means that if Amazon has their way, a lot of eBooks would not be available to people who do not read Amazon eBooks.

Now do you see the point?

Yes, I do see your point. Of course, that is exactly what Apple, B&N, Sony and other ebook sellers do -- attempt to negotiate exclusive contracts with publishers. Maybe Amazon has more success, because they are so big. To me, this wouldn't be a problem if Amazon sold books in epub also. I still see it as a DRM problem, because, what would be the problem if you had to buy the book from Amazon? Their prices are usually quite good. The only problem is that you can't read them on anything but Kindle without conversion.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by reech

I moved from a Sony eReader to a Kindle for the following reasons:

- Awful formatting and layout of the majority of ePub books I read (true, this could have been down to the publisher, but I was sick and tired of it)

I do agree that a lot of ePub eBooks are poorly formatted and the reading expereince when those is not optimal. That does seem to be getting better, but it's not yet better enough overall. That is one of the reasons I strip the DRM so I can fix the formatting and enjoy reading without the formatting getting in the way.

- Getting ADE to recognise and allow reading on my eReader was hit and miss - also, the Sony eReader Library software would regularaly puke up on Windows 7

I've never had a problem of ADE not recognizing all the various Sony Readers I have had connected to the computer while ADE was running. And as for eBook Library and Windows 7, no problems at all on 32-bit and 64-bit Windows 7. The problem is usually some dodgy software your system is running that causes Reader Library problems. I've installed eBook Library from the days of the 500 on up to the recent version on different computers and different versions of Windows without a problem. So that would suggest it is some other software causing the problem. It definitely is not Windows.

- The cost of ebooks for the Sony Device were in many cases equal to, or higher than the paperback version; that was even if I could find the book I wanted.

Was this before or after the agency 6? Before the agency 6, did you shop around at the different eBookstores to see who offered the best price or had a discount/sale going on?

- Library support was the only thing going for it - but the UK Library system is so backwards, my local library didn't have access to it, and the one national library I could use thought science fiction stories stopped being published in 1962.

If you do have access to a library or libraries that have good eBook support, I agree, go for a supported device.

When I'd had enough, I did some research, checked prices, features and behaviours (for the devices AND the books I was interested in) and settled on Kindle.

I've not yet found a book I can't get directly from Amazon (I'm a crap-literature-mainstream reader!) and in most cases, the price is equal to, or less than the paperback. I can also get a load of free books from Amazon's store, or from the websites listed above (as well as Feedbooks, etc.)

Sadly, in the UK, we can't lend books using the Amazon Lending feature, but hopefully that's on its way. In any case, at least now my other friends can easily find books they want to get from Amazon on their Kindle, rather than me having to do some arcane trickery to buy and then transfer the book to their Sony device. Blargh, complete nightmare.

Adobe's format is, to me, the far more 'controlled' one; the UK pricing structure for it is abysmal, and I'm pretty pleased that Amazon doesn't use it.

Horses for courses; if Library Lending is what you want, go for an ePub related device, it'll serve you well. But if you want a light, cheap, easy to use eBook reader with an excellent online store interface and reasonable book prices, go Kindle.

If Amazon's model works for you, you like the Kindle and not having library eBook access is not an issue, then go for the Kindle. Amazon did one thing right from the start and that is ease of access to their eBooks.

With ADE, you have more to do to get your device setup to handle the DRMed ePub. And if you run out of authorizations, it's not as easy as it should be to get Adobe to fix that.

So yes there are drawbacks to ADE/ePub just as there are to the Kindle. The most satisfied customers are ones who do the research and then decide what device to get.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by EowynCarter

What John was speaking about are the exclusivity deals made by amazon.
Mobi, even without drm, mobi are still mobi, and still can't be read on my e-reader.
Yeah, you can convert, but it works badly. I went looking at an epub, and though it was badly made, before seeing the "calibre", hinting at a converted book. "Oh, that why".
Don't get me wrong, calibre was a life savior on that one, but i will not convert unless forced onto it.

Because of the way Mobipocket eBooks do not use CSS and all the code has to go inside the HTML before the eBook is made, it can lead to some pretty awful code. Calibre is only able to work with what it has. Garbage in, garbage out.

Older Mobipocket eBooks can be pretty abysmally coded. That's probably due to older versions of the Mobipocket software for creating eBooks.

Yes, I can convert eBooks and I have. But sometimes it's a lot of work to fix them up when the code from the Mobipocket original is a mess.

But the problem is not Calibre, it's the source.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by montalex

Yes, I do see your point. Of course, that is exactly what Apple, B&N, Sony and other ebook sellers do -- attempt to negotiate exclusive contracts with publishers. Maybe Amazon has more success, because they are so big. To me, this wouldn't be a problem if Amazon sold books in epub also. I still see it as a DRM problem, because, what would be the problem if you had to buy the book from Amazon? Their prices are usually quite good. The only problem is that you can't read them on anything but Kindle without conversion.

You can't go by the people on MR. A lot of us know how to strip DRM and convert. But even more people do not and those are the people most hurt by exclusive deals. We know more about Amazon's exclusive deals as we get press releases about them. So Amazon makes their exclusive deals in our faces. It's like giving a raspberry to all the people who do read eBooks just not Kindle eBooks.

[DiapDealer]

A lot of us know how to strip DRM and convert. But even more people do not and those are the people most hurt by exclusive deals.

Which is why DRM is the real issue here, and not exclusivity. Exclusivity and differing formats would be trivial if not for DRM. Without it, every ereader (hardware or app) would have its own high-quality format-shifting software built in to it.

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Which is why DRM is the real issue here, and not exclusivity. Exclusivity and differing formats would be trivial if not for DRM. Without it, every ereader (hardware or app) would have its own high-quality format-shifting software built in to it.

Nope, the issue is why we still believe that something such as exclusivity still has the possibility of existing. The idea is living on borrowed time as they say. The idea of exclusivity/copyright has been around for quite some time, first proclaimed from a soapbox then spouted by "official" sources, you might think it will take an equal amount of time to abandon the idea entirely. But we know that the rate of change is always increasing, ideas are abandoned constantly.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Giggleton

Nope, the issue is why we still believe that something such as exclusivity still has the possibility of existing. The idea is living on borrowed time as they say. The idea of exclusivity/copyright has been around for quite some time, first proclaimed from a soapbox then spouted by "official" sources, you might think it will take an equal amount of time to abandon the idea entirely. But we know that the rate of change is always increasing, ideas are abandoned constantly.

I almost agree with you in principle. I admire your idealism, but when was the last time that MAN has shown the slightest propensity for change when it comes to concepts like; "mine" and "pay me for 'mine'?"

No, the realist in me almost always smacks the idealist in me in the mouth--hard. But I do wish you luck in being able to hurry that "new era" along.

[karunaji]

I bought Kindle WiFi because it was cheap and had the best Perl e-ink screen. After several months of use I find it quite inconvenient to deal with conversion of other file formats to mobi format every day.

Initially I thought that it will not be such a big issue because it is a WiFi device but I buy only 1/3 of my books from Amazon (1/3 are epubs both DRM and non-DRM, and 1/3 are my personal documents).

Greatest inconveniences with e-mailing via Amazon servers are as follows:
1) e-mail conversion sometimes fails for unknown reasons
2) there is an annoying delay of more than 1-2 minutes (it depends on file size)
3) conversion is not perfect, sometimes you get margins that are close to 50% of the screen size, sometimes encoding is garbled, or all the text becomes italic or bold
4) You need to be online for this function to work (3G is not an answer as personal document transfer costs are too high for me)

Using calibre conversion has the same faults – it also takes time, you need a special WinSCP software to transfer the files directly to Kindle, usually you see the problem only after transfer etc. And I won't even mention PDF reading issues.

When using USB cable for transfer, it is also annoying that after disconnecting from the computer it takes some time to rebuild the database.

Before Kindle I used Palm device for reading mobipocket books and although I also used to transfer books and new documents mostly via USB cable, it seemed to work quicker and more reliably in conjunction with Mobipocket PC. Apart from superb screen, Kindle software is still quite immature.

In short: Kindle works very well with Amazon books but it is a hassle to use with outside sources. My next device will not be Kindle anymore.

[CRussel]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Which is why DRM is the real issue here, and not exclusivity. Exclusivity and differing formats would be trivial if not for DRM. Without it, every ereader (hardware or app) would have its own high-quality format-shifting software built in to it.

I completely agree. DRM does nothing to improve the reading experience for the user, and ultimately nothing to improve the bottom line for the publisher and/or author. It's DRM that is the issue, not the format.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by karunaji

Using calibre conversion has the same faults – it also takes time, you need a special WinSCP software to transfer the files directly to Kindle, usually you see the problem only after transfer etc.

I'm not following you here. All you need to transfer files directly from Calibre to the Kindle is a USB cable... unless I'm completely misunderstanding (which is certainly possible)?