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Old 05-23-2010, 05:22 PM   #31
Greg Anos
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Frankly, I think E.E.Smith had it pegged in the 1930's Read Grey Lensman, Despite a myriad of recreational (illegal) drugs being used, good ol' alky was still used heavily...
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Old 05-23-2010, 06:01 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward View Post
Frankly, I think E.E.Smith had it pegged in the 1930's Read Grey Lensman, Despite a myriad of recreational (illegal) drugs being used, good ol' alky was still used heavily...

Yeah, I don't see it disappearing either. It may take on different aspects in our (future) culture, but it won't go away.

BTW, neither will cigarettes - I predict new religions will spring up incorporating tobacco use in the worship services and in every day religious practice. It could be hard for the USA to deny this as a valid religious expression. Several native American cultures use tobacco in spiritual/religious ceremonies, AND many Tribal governments make quite a bit of money in selling tax free cigarettes. It wouldn't take much for a few cynical Tribal leaders to visualize a convergence of Tribal interests there.
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Old 05-24-2010, 12:48 PM   #33
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The prevailing opinion seems to be that alcohol is a part of society, and society won't significantly change, so alcohol will always be a part of it.

Once upon a time, sitting around the campfire and grunting about the day's hunt was a constant of society. So were celebrations of the Solstices.

Society does change over time... though it always seems to be almost impossible for most in the present to be able to imagine and fully appreciate those changes. And I can easily imagine a society in which humans do not have a desire, or a need, to "get a high" from any substance... not to mention an ability to create "synthehol"-type products at will, taking the "high" out of alcohol.

I can even more easily imagine a society that decides the dangers/consequences of those "highs" are too great, and legislate them away until virtually no one drinks. I'm sure smokers of the 1950s would have never imagined our relatively smoke-free USA of today.

(I'd assume there will always be rogues in a society, the less-than-1-percent that will do something, just like today we have home-brewers... but I'd consider that statistically so small as to be not worth mentioning in a story.)

So, it depends on the futuristic society created, and the reasons that are implied for needing, or needing to ban, alcohol. I can imagine it either way. My characters often drink socially, but almost never to excess, and few have smoked. It's just not a part of the world I generally create when I tell a story. I wouldn't consider these characters to be restricted in any way, as the need to imbibe to drunkenness would not normally match the characters I create, nor would it advance the story.

On the other hand... in the next story, it just might. Who knows?
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Old 05-24-2010, 04:54 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Randolphlalonde View Post
After writing several novels set in the distant future and quietly drifting from one side of this topic to the other, I'm finally asking science fiction fans: How common will alcohol be in the distant future when alternatives are becoming more and more common?

Right now there are several companies working on everything from alcohol substitutes that don't give you a hangover, to synthetic recreational substances that are designed to just barely pass FDA approval. Other interest groups are trying to legalize marijuana and still more are trying to de-popularize the use of alcohol as well as its consumption on television and film. It seems to me that within my lifetime there may be other legal recreational options, so why not in the distant future?

Battlestar Galactica call their booze Ambrosia, while Star Trek the Next Generation came up with the hangover free Synth-Ale. The reboot takes things back to basics, going as far as to use brand names like Budweiser. I'm a little surprised science fiction hasn't already diversified to be honest.

The question I ask on my web page boils down to this:

So, what do you think of social consumption of mood altering substances (besides alcohol) in science fiction?

Please add your two cents one way or the other. Your thoughts may help shape a science fiction universe once and for all on this topic.
Heck, just go with fermented cannabis beverages instead and piss off some of both sides of the fence...even hear of bhang? You can buy it from street vendors all over India who make the stuff in nasty dirty old jars, 5-gallon water bottles or anything they can grab as a fermenting vessle. I have little doubt it will be one of the first retail products once MJ is finally legal and we can focus on real problems in the world or even just here in the US.

And if you are writing to appease political groups then your works are, well, nothing I would ever respect. Write what YOU believe in not what you are told to write...I mean if you keep up the pandering where will your work end up? Pure milk-toast/pablum w/o any substance. That is because you can never make the "Nancy Reagan's" of the world happy and they always want more...but it's up to you and what you can live with...Spider Robinson put a vile section in his Callahan's Legacy from his otherwise wonderful Callahan series. Still it did not stop me from enjoying the rest of his works. In fact I respect he took a risk, one I feel was wrong, but he did what he felt was important for whatever his reasons.

I don't remember the novels, but I believe is was in the old John Grimes series where they talked about smoking some sort of "panty droppers" and "leg open uppers" or some wording to that effect, at a beach party. I wish I could remember the series/author because I don't feel I am remembering correctly just know it was in some OLD title I read when I was somewhere between 12-16.

Plus something controversial will only add to the discussions of your works. And as someone once said "....there is no such thing as bad publicity..."

Weird, my first post here in months...but it's a great topic.
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Old 05-24-2010, 05:21 PM   #35
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I love the idea of mood-altering alternates to alcohol in sci-fi, particularly if it has some kind of comment on the world you've created (a la Synth-ale for Star Trek, which implies that Starfleet acknowledges the need for alcohol while trying to keep the crew from getting incapacitated). If it enriches the world you've created, then do it!
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Old 05-24-2010, 06:04 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Steve Jordan View Post
The prevailing opinion seems to be that alcohol is a part of society, and society won't significantly change, so alcohol will always be a part of it.

Once upon a time, sitting around the campfire and grunting about the day's hunt was a constant of society. So were celebrations of the Solstices.

Society does change over time... though it always seems to be almost impossible for most in the present to be able to imagine and fully appreciate those changes. And I can easily imagine a society in which humans do not have a desire, or a need, to "get a high" from any substance... not to mention an ability to create "synthehol"-type products at will, taking the "high" out of alcohol.
That's all true.

But the fact remains for now that with all the vast societal changes, alcohol has remained a part of most cultures for thousands of years. Not to mention various types of smoking, chewing and drugs etc. that generate some buzz/high.

It seems a need for getting high has been a constant throughout human history. So while I can imagine a future where that's not the case, I don't think it's very likely.

Reality bites. Always has, always will. Some people will always need a method of escape.
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Old 05-24-2010, 06:10 PM   #37
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And I can easily imagine a society in which humans do not have a desire, or a need, to "get a high" from any substance... not to mention an ability to create "synthehol"-type products at will, taking the "high" out of alcohol.
But we're still talking about humans, aren't we? Even animals enjoy alcohol on this planet - at least as fermented fruits - so this is basic to our genetic structure. This won't change.

The substance might change, but not the being consuming it.

* my bottle of Californian Chardonnay is empty, grumble ...
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Old 05-24-2010, 07:21 PM   #38
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But we're still talking about humans, aren't we? Even animals enjoy alcohol on this planet - at least as fermented fruits - so this is basic to our genetic structure. This won't change.
You're saying it's inherent to our genetic structure to get drunk? Or that it's instinctive?

I don't think so.

The desire to find a way to relax is certainly instinctive with most higher mammals. But as there are other ways to do it, there's nothing "genetic" or "instinctive" about doing it with alcohol... it just happens to be the way it's been done for a long time.

However, I am not of the school that, just because it's been done a long time, that it will be done forever, any more than we still continue our long-standing tradition of hunting with spears (something we've done much, much longer than living in brick homes and going to work each day).
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Old 05-25-2010, 12:59 AM   #39
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The general consensus of the Mobileread and Syfy forums as well as my blog, the twitter activity on this, Email responses and the threads on Facebook commonly agree that alcohol has a future. That’s actually a good thing for the series of books I’ve written and continue to work on.

As for the side commentary on the topic of self censorship, well, it was far over blown. The simple truth is that these science fiction books have nothing to do with substance use or abuse, and the reason why I reduced the mention of non-alcoholic substances was because I didn’t want drug use to steal attention from the story and characters. If some Church Lady came along and started screeching about heavy drug use, well, she’s either overreacting or I overdid it on the depiction of substance use in the book, handicapping my own main plot. Why bother risking any of it when it’s not central to the story?

What have I decided after reading the thousands of words written on this topic over the last week or so?

Well, space opera is a funny space to write fiction in. Before drugs and alcohol were used as a tool to help set a scene. Now I feel I can employ them in to a sub plot that I've been considering, and I'm fairly certain that they'll help support the main story in the way I'll be using them, not draw attention away from it. More will be happening in social settings as well, so the role of a casual drink or five at a favorite watering hole will become more visible, and while they will serve alcohol there, other substances and “treatments” will be featured as well.

There will be a nod to consequences and that includes addiction. Why would addiction go away in the future? That’s something so many people supposed, and frankly, current day studies on soon to be approved pleasure substances prove that drug and “leisure substance” companies are constantly trying to find ways to make the new buzz as addictive as possible without breaking the law. That’s not even considering the back room chemist, who is a growing concern in smaller towns across Europe and North America. His stuff is so addictive that, according to addicts, entire lives change with one hit.

Now that I’ve had your help, and I’ve been led down several different paths of consideration, I’ve decided that the future is bright (or dark, depending on your point of view), for alcohol as well as other substances in Spinward Fringe. In fact, I’m ready to write it all in stone. The alcohol loving characters in my little science fiction series will have plenty to drink. The characters inclined to enjoy chemicals will do so right along side them, and the cyborgs will have their neural manipulation software packages and memory packets.

I’ll still balance all that so it doesn’t overwhelm the main plot, but that’s something any writer should do. Thanks to this debate, however, I’ll be using all the brushes in my kit to paint a broader, more interesting backdrop when it comes to what people are up to in night spots and watering holes.

Bring it on Church Lady.

[If you'd like to see the Spinward Fringe Encyclopaedia entry, you can find it on my blog: http://randolphlalonde.blogspot.com/...dia-entry.html]
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