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Old 09-06-2014, 01:09 PM   #31
DuBlue
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[QUOTE=PeterT;2916371]And how about a new user of Calibre on XP or MAC who wants to install one of your plugins?


They do not have to install the addon. The current and soon to be previous version will still work and still be available. AFAIK


How exactly are THEY meant to accomplish this feat when you, in your exalted state, have decided to only support 2.2 and above?


When you refer to THEY, do you include yourself or are you getting upset on behalf of some imaginary person? And what do you mean by his 'exalted state'? Is that another term for THE GUY THAT WROTE THE THING? I also don't know anyone that doesn't keep there calibre up to date. If you're still required to use Calibre 1.48 then bless you and your grandchildren but please take the time to look at your calender; It may need updating.

Also, davidfor is discussing YOUR plugin here. All we have been trying to do is to help YOU out. So sorry to have interfered in your private little world.


It sounds more like you are trying to TELL HIM WHAT TO DO with his plugin, rather than HELP him as you claim. And to call refer to his 'private little world' in a forum on a global network that connects him to every user and non-user of his software, AND HE RESPONDS, well that just stupid. Sorry to say it, but your parents may have been related before they got married. I would suggest counting the branches on your family tree before you concern yourself with what other people do with their spare time.

DaltonST, Thank you very much for your efforts. It's is appreciated by people that don't expect everything handed to them at the snap of a finger.
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Old 09-06-2014, 01:40 PM   #32
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Plugins do belong to the Author

That said,
Why lock out older Calibre if you don't really need a feature that only exists in a newer version.
?

I can't speak to how much effort (or code) was added to make the old PI QT5 compatible.

By all means, don't hamstring your work if QT4 compatibility is not easily achievable
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Old 09-06-2014, 05:18 PM   #33
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I do think that if at all possible, keep in Qt4 compatibility for those on XP or older OS X and 1.48. Unless of course, there's something in the plugin that won't work under 1.48. Making plugins only run on 2.x is cutting off your possible audience.

But as has been said, it's your choice to make such a mistake as it's your plugin.
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Old 09-06-2014, 08:45 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DuBlue View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
And how about a new user of Calibre on XP or MAC who wants to install one of your plugins?
They do not have to install the addon. The current and soon to be previous version will still work and still be available. AFAIK
No it won't. Only whatever version is in the first post of the thread is available. When this is updated, it is copied to a calibre server and replaces the existing version. So, anyone who needs to use 1.48 and doesn't already have this plugin won't be able to install it.
Quote:

How exactly are THEY meant to accomplish this feat when you, in your exalted state, have decided to only support 2.2 and above?


When you refer to THEY, do you include yourself or are you getting upset on behalf of some imaginary person? And what do you mean by his 'exalted state'? Is that another term for THE GUY THAT WROTE THE THING? I also don't know anyone that doesn't keep there calibre up to date. If you're still required to use Calibre 1.48 then bless you and your grandchildren but please take the time to look at your calender; It may need updating.
There is a lot of discussion about this. There are valid reasons not to upgrade.
Quote:
Also, davidfor is discussing YOUR plugin here. All we have been trying to do is to help YOU out. So sorry to have interfered in your private little world.


It sounds more like you are trying to TELL HIM WHAT TO DO with his plugin, rather than HELP him as you claim. And to call refer to his 'private little world' in a forum on a global network that connects him to every user and non-user of his software, AND HE RESPONDS, well that just stupid. Sorry to say it, but your parents may have been related before they got married. I would suggest counting the branches on your family tree before you concern yourself with what other people do with their spare time.
He definitely wasn't. If he was, he would be over in the threads for my plugins making suggestions for changes. Which is something he has done several times. And as he is also willing to test and report problems. And he frequently steps in to answer questions before I get the chance to. So, I am willing to listen to him.

What he did was to send me PM warning me of a possible issue with my plugins. When I looked, I discovered it wasn't a problem for me, but an error in how this plugin was coded. I could see why he thought what he did and have no problem with the error. If there is going to be a problem, I want to hear about it as early as possible. In any case, I would have seen the thread a little later in the day and done the investigation to see if I was going to have a problem. And then reported in this thread my findings. i.e. Done exactly what I did.
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DaltonST, Thank you very much for your efforts. It's is appreciated by people that don't expect everything handed to them at the snap of a finger.
While I have no personal interest in DaltonST's plugins, it's good that he has made them available. And it is his decision as to exactly what support to give. But, he has made a decision based on an error. The reported problem was not a real issue with calibre, but because the plugin contained unnecessary code.
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Old 09-07-2014, 12:55 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaltonST View Post
The user of Derive Genres who reported the Calibre 2.2.0 issue to me in the first place discovered it while using a Mac.

As for free XP replacements without buying a new pc:

As for keeping XP but running Calibre 2.2.0 within an Ubuntu virtual machine inside of XP: http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/virtualbox

And for those who have or can get a new or used ChromeBook very cheaply, you can install a full fledged Linux on the Chromebook hardware using https://github.com/dnschneid/crouton

Craigslist has old PCs for $50 that can be reformatted to run Ubuntu and used as a Calibre 2.2+ device. http://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/sys?maxAsk=50

There are almost always options, although granted that they require some effort.

So, I am sanguine about where Derive Genres and my other 2 plugins are positioned viz a viz Calibre 1.48.
Not everyone is comfortable with installing another OS on their computer. Very often they are not even comfortable with having me do it for them.
A Windows user is probably more prone to that also.

A much simpler solution would be for you to simply mark your plugin as compatible with older versions -- since it is. Of course, it is your plugin and you may do whatever you wish with it, but I fail to see what purpose there is in doing so. You are not using any code which requires 2.2, so who benefits when you go out of your way to mark it to require 2.2?

Regarding the bug reporter discovering it on a Mac: as I assume you have more than one user, I am unsure what you are trying to say.

I truly admire your caring and friendly approach to tech support and interaction with the online community. </sarcasm>

Also, perhaps you should keep in mind that not everything is a personal attack on you.

Last edited by eschwartz; 09-07-2014 at 01:00 AM.
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Old 09-08-2014, 01:29 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
I do think that if at all possible, keep in Qt4 compatibility for those on XP or older OS X and 1.48. Unless of course, there's something in the plugin that won't work under 1.48. Making plugins only run on 2.x is cutting off your possible audience.

But as has been said, it's your choice to make such a mistake as it's your plugin.

Your comment concerns Qt4, which is totally off topic. The issue has absolutely nothing to do with Qt4 or Qt5. Nothing.
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Old 09-08-2014, 10:41 PM   #37
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Your comment concerns Qt4, which is totally off topic. The issue has absolutely nothing to do with Qt4 or Qt5. Nothing.
Yes, it very much does. Qt5 does not run on older OS X and it does run well on XP. So yes, it is a Qt4 issue and your taking out Qt4 comparability just means you don't care. You are now telling people who have use Calibre 1.48 for one reason or another that they can no longer use your plugin. You are also telling people on XP who upgraded to Calibre 2.0 and your newest plugin that if they go back to Calibre 1.48, they can no longer use your plugin. What you are doing is now taking your plugin away from these people.

Switching from an older version of OS X or XP to some version Linux is not an option and it's not even a valid suggestion.
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Old 09-08-2014, 10:50 PM   #38
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Yes, it very much does. Qt5 does not run on older OS X and it does run well on XP. So yes, it is a Qt4 issue and your taking out Qt4 comparability just means you don't care. You are now telling people who have use Calibre 1.48 for one reason or another that they can no longer use your plugin. You are also telling people on XP who upgraded to Calibre 2.0 and your newest plugin that if they go back to Calibre 1.48, they can no longer use your plugin. What you are doing is now taking your plugin away from these people.

Switching from an older version of OS X or XP to some version Linux is not an option and it's not even a valid suggestion.
Lets just be very clear that it is his plugin and he may do whatever he wants. And if his plugin needed calibre2.x features to thrive, then it sucks to be an XP user.

Since it doesn't, I don't see the harm in allowing its use... but that is a different issue. And the developer is still king and can literally do whatever the hell he wants with it.

Also while we are at it, why don't we confuse calibre 2.x with Qt5?

Regarding linux as "not an option and not even a valid suggestion", please take your insensitive foulness elsewhere, you are helping nothing.
(And I have already explained a far more reasonable perspective on that issue.)
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Old 09-09-2014, 10:31 AM   #39
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Lets just be very clear that it is his plugin and he may do whatever he wants. And if his plugin needed calibre2.x features to thrive, then it sucks to be an XP user.
The point is, that it DOESN'T need anything Qt5 specific to work. So taking out the code that allows it to run with Calibre 1.48 and Qt4 doesn't actually accomplish anything useful.

Quote:
Since it doesn't, I don't see the harm in allowing its use... but that is a different issue. And the developer is still king and can literally do whatever the hell he wants with it.
I know the developer can do what he/she wants with his/her plugin. But (IMHO) I don't think it's fair to take away a functioning plugin for those that could make use of it or were making use of it and now lost it because the Calibre 1.48 compatible version is gone.

Quote:
Also while we are at it, why don't we confuse calibre 2.x with Qt5?
I think you misunderstand that Qt5 is tied into Calibre 2.x. You cannot have Qt4 with Calibre 2.x. So I think it is you who is confused.

Quote:
Regarding linux as "not an option and not even a valid suggestion", please take your insensitive foulness elsewhere, you are helping nothing.
(And I have already explained a far more reasonable perspective on that issue.)
I feel it's not a good idea to suggest that people move from OS X or XP to Linux when they will lose the use of a lot of software they use and also the fact that a lot of them won't have a clue how to use Linux is something you have to think about. Moving to a completely different operating system instead of putting back in the code to allow the plugin to run under Calibre 1.48 is what's most problematic.

Please don't reply as I am done with this thread.

Last edited by JSWolf; 09-09-2014 at 12:17 PM.
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Old 09-09-2014, 12:35 PM   #40
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Moderator Notice

DaltonST: Your OFFENSIVE post is unacceptable, and further posts that are personal attacks will be deleted and further action taken.

If you are unable to refrain from making personal attacks, then it is better to refrain from posting anything.

JSWolf: Since you are done with this thread, I expect no further responses from you.

Both members: Take the time now to review our Posting Gudielines and acknowledge that views do differ, and move on.



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Old 09-10-2014, 08:25 PM   #41
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@DaltonST,

I will say one last time:

Quote:
A much simpler solution would be for you to simply mark your plugin(s) as compatible with older versions -- since it is. Of course, it is your plugin(s) and you may do whatever you wish with it, but I fail to see what purpose there is in doing so. You are not using any code which requires 2.2, so who benefits when you go out of your way to mark it to require 2.2?
If you change the plugin(s) to simply say 1.48 is supported, it will work perfectly on calibre 1.48, so I do not see why you wouldn't offer it to as many people as want it -- just in case an XP user decides they like your work.

In any event, you are obviously allowed to do whatever you want with it... but I fail to see what the purpose of your sticking point is.

If you are of the opinion that XP users should be forced to install a linux distro or buy a new computer, well, I am not sure why you should feel so strongly to lie about your plugin's compatibility for that admittedly noble goal but keep in mind that most people are Windows users for a reason -- they don't know how to do that without someone holding their hand the whole way; also, that is a fairly big step to be taking solely for the sake of this plugin(s). And shockingly, money is an issue for some people. *Even* $50.

Quote:
There are almost always options, although granted that they require some effort.
True, but KISS implies that a better option would be to mark your plugin(s) as compatible... since it already is except for the version declaration. And options that require some lots of effort (comparatively) are going to turn people off. You may not care. It is after all your plugin(s), and you are not required to do anything with it that you do not want to. But I have to wonder why you are justifying it to yourself, when you could just say "I don't care about those people. It is their fault for not knowing enough to use the free alternative systems available. Sucks to be them."

I would think you'd like to make it easier for people to use your stuff. That is the usual reason for sharing one's work free of charge. The only reason I would see to mark your plugin(s) as incompatible with 1.48 would be if you genuinely believed they wouldn't work on that version -- but you have been told otherwise:
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidfor View Post
As the plugin is yours, what you do with it is up to you. But, as I said, there is nothing that I can see in your code that will prevent it fro running in calibre 1.48. And to check, I reduced the minimum version and installed it in 1.48. When I ran it, I had no errors.
We (with perhaps one exception) are only trying to offer what we believe to be genuinely helpful advice. This is not meant as an insult of your work.

But if you are determined to hobble your work over a version declaration, we cannot stop you. Either way, I don't think there is anything more to be said on the matter.

Bye, now.
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Old 09-20-2014, 06:18 PM   #42
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@DaltonST - I hope it's safe to ask a question about the plugin's functionality, rather than its preferred eco-system, or whatever this week's in-word is with the Geek Nobility

From what I can gather the plug-in mandates that I create a column called genres/Genres, is there any chance of changing the plugin so that I create a column of the required type and put the name I want into the PI's configuration. Example: the Count Pages PI requires the creation of custom columns but the user determines the names thereof.

One of my pet private peeves about calibre is that I can't change the name of the 'standard columns' - eg for my journals library it suits me to put the Journal Name in Author and the Issue no/Date/Month in Title. I would love have the wherewithal to relabel them Journal and Issue for that library.

Maybe I could set up a column with the name I want with type "Column built from other columns, behaves like tags" with a template of {genre} and hide the Genre Column. I did try that with Author & Title in my Journals library, it was a PITA workflow wise - so I dropped the derived columns, in favour of misleading column labels Ψ²

pssst : does the PI work with calibre 2.3

BR

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Old 09-21-2014, 12:06 AM   #43
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The field name must be #genre. That is what is defined in the custom-columns table in metadata.db. Calibre knows it by that name and no other. The label that appears as the column name that you actually see can be anything that you wish. You can label the #genre column 'Title' or 'Tags' if you wish. The label is just that; a mere word that appears at the top of the column and in the embedded metadata of a book.

Historical Calibre design decisions regarding custom columns should be investigated in the Development forum. Plugins merely work within the existing design parameters of Calibre. Plugins are the tail; Calibre wags it. The Development forum is where you might seek answers about your generic issues with custom columns.
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Old 09-21-2014, 01:23 AM   #44
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The field name must be #genre. That is what is defined in the custom-columns table in metadata.db. Calibre knows it by that name and no other. The label that appears as the column name that you actually see can be anything that you wish. You can label the #genre column 'Title' or 'Tags' if you wish. The label is just that; a mere word that appears at the top of the column and in the embedded metadata of a book.

Historical Calibre design decisions regarding custom columns should be investigated in the Development forum. Plugins merely work within the existing design parameters of Calibre. Plugins are the tail; Calibre wags it. The Development forum is where you might seek answers about your generic issues with custom columns.
Calibre doesn't define the names of any custom column. And doesn't define a column called "genre" or "#genre". The only reference to "#genre" the calibre code is where it is used as example in a template function description. There are some instructions somewhere about how to handle genre in calibre. Those instructions probably suggest "#genre" as the lookup name for the custom column needed.

Because of the above, you can set the name used by the plugin for the custom column. Or, you can do like most plugins that us custom columns and allow the user to call it whatever they want and then set it in the plugin configuration.
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Old 09-21-2014, 05:41 AM   #45
BetterRed
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Originally Posted by DaltonST View Post
The field name must be #genre. That is what is defined in the custom-columns table in metadata.db. Calibre knows it by that name and no other. The label that appears as the column name that you actually see can be anything that you wish. You can label the #genre column 'Title' or 'Tags' if you wish. The label is just that; a mere word that appears at the top of the column and in the embedded metadata of a book.

Historical Calibre design decisions regarding custom columns should be investigated in the Development forum. Plugins merely work within the existing design parameters of Calibre. Plugins are the tail; Calibre wags it. The Development forum is where you might seek answers about your generic issues with custom columns.
@DaltonST - A column name that commences with a '#' is by definition a custom column, as such the core code has no knowledge of it - unlike author, title etc.

When creating custom columns I create them with an external name that is readily maps to the internal name eg my Last Action Date column has an internal name of #last_action_date.

I've attached the configuration dialogue for the Count Pages PI, it will compute up to 5 counters/indexes - each one of which requires a custom column in which to store the result. The names of the custom columns are a user decision - if I wanted the Word count to be Barks externally and #meows internally then I could, but I prefer Words and #wordcount

The only place where #genre is baked into the code is in your PI. That makes it unattractive to make use of your PI for anything other than the narrow purpose that you've targeted - which is a pity because I think I might have been able to used it for somewhat different purpose.

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