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Old 05-05-2009, 08:18 PM   #106
catsittingstill
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Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
Well, it looks like Amazon botched the KDX up. It has no ePub support. A nice big 9.7 inch screen with no ePub support is a joke.
I think it's a little premature to assume there's no ePub support. I haven't seen it mentioned, the way pdf has been mentioned, but the leaks/articles are going to concentrate on the stuff that the most people are going to want to know. Everybody knows about pdf; you have to be an e-book afficionado to know about ePub, so ePub might not get mentioned even if it's on there.

We'll know more tomorrow.
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Old 05-05-2009, 08:20 PM   #107
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I hear what your saying Sonist and DavidSpitzer. I've been salavating for a large screen eReader that supports PDF since the day I got my Kindle 1. There are some huge advantages to PDF -- see Why I want a big screen ereader

On the other hand, there are also some advantages to ePub. The two biggest are probably the ability to resize fonts and then the text on the page seemlessly reflows. This is especially useful to us guys whose eyes aren't that great anymore. The second big advantage is that only a single file is needed for displaying on a multitude of different sized devices.

Sometimes I'd prefer a reflowable document. If I'm reading a novel, even when illustrated, I would strongly prefer something reflowable over a PDF document. In fact, I'd say that for most books I'd prefer ePub.

I suppose one could argue that Amazon already supports the mobi format and that is good enough. However, ePub is definately superior to mobi, and not including ePub support is tantamount to Microsoft not supporting the latest web standards and insisting that the HTML 3.0 standards are good enough.
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Old 05-05-2009, 08:41 PM   #108
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I know I most certainly will. But if they didn't implement decent PDF support in a large screen device, they'd be idiots.

Don't tempt me....
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Old 05-05-2009, 08:47 PM   #109
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... On the other hand, there are also some advantages to ePub. The two biggest are probably the ability to resize fonts and then the text on the page seemlessly reflows....
But, the new Adobe SDK provides support for reflow-able pages.

I think EPUB is just another format, in an already cluttered field.

It has no clear benefits to offer over a de-facto document standard (PDF), and it will just confuse and fragment the market, and possibly slow adoption.
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Old 05-05-2009, 09:29 PM   #110
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Old 05-05-2009, 09:41 PM   #111
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There already is a full size A4 reader: the Macbook Air. Open a pdf using Skim, rotate the document to the left. Switch to presentation mode, and you get a full screen display. The Air is light enough so that you can read this way without any problems. The screen of the Air is just a little bit smaller than an A4 sheet of paper.
Hmm. Wouldn't it be nice if some of the ereader programs could be rotated on the mac in that fashion?

And there's an outfit that makes iTablets out of MacBooks - I wonder if they could do the same for an Air? Imagine an AirTablet....
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Old 05-06-2009, 12:30 AM   #112
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If this comes with WiFi, I'm in. Alas, I expect it wont because of Whispernet (which is useless outside the US). Nevertheless, it will be very tempting.
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:59 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by Sonist View Post
But, the new Adobe SDK provides support for reflow-able pages.

I think EPUB is just another format, in an already cluttered field.

It has no clear benefits to offer over a de-facto document standard (PDF), and it will just confuse and fragment the market, and possibly slow adoption.
Can you convert old pdf into the new format then? or is it something that needs to be done when the pdf is first created. Also how do you tell if a pdf file does support reflow-able text or not?
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Old 05-06-2009, 03:01 AM   #114
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I can't say as your move was very smart. What if the Kindle DX doesn't *have* wireless access? And it might not be available until the fall. At least wait until it comes out before making a decision, sheesh.
Well he wouldn't of got his money back if waited much longer from what he posted so i guess that's why he made the choice to send it back and bank on the DX comming out soon with features he wants.

edit: sorry for double post, won't happen again.
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Old 05-06-2009, 07:24 AM   #115
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Botched in what way? You think it won't be a success and sell well due to this? I doubt it since lack of epub support won't make one iota of difference when it comes to the vast majority of potential buyers. They'll be getting their content from Amazon and I'd hazard a a guess and say both Amazon and most buyers will be perfectly happy with this arrangement.

Don't get me wrong I'm far from happy with Amazon dominating the ebook market and I'd love to see every device out there support epub (all my ebooks are now in this format) but from a business perspective lack of epub support is just an none issue when it comes to the kindle range. In fact you could even argue that it would be against Amazon's best interests as the owners of mobipocket to support epub.
Exactly. I don't mind it at all on my K1. I'm a casual reader/user and just get all my books either from Amazon and Feedbooks. I only get ebooks of stuff I only plan to read once (and will buy a hardback of anything I read and want to keep).

So I personally couldn't care one iota about formats not supported, DRM issues (would rather them not be there, but since I just read once it doesn't really affect me) etc. In the off chance that there's something I want to read not in mobi format, it's easy enough to convert in Calibre and other programs. But I haven't had a need yet.

I'm perfectly happy with my Kindle 1 as I bought it over something else for two reasons--convenience of the Whispernet and selection of the Amazon store.

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Old 05-06-2009, 08:38 AM   #116
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I can't say as your move was very smart. What if the Kindle DX doesn't *have* wireless access? And it might not be available until the fall. At least wait until it comes out before making a decision, sheesh.
A) It's his money.

B) He could buy a PRS 505 for $100 right now in the deals forum.

C) He wants a large format reader, regardless of who the vendor might be.

D) Wireless may not matter to him.

You certainly do seem to like promoting Amazon, Sir Bruce.
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Old 05-06-2009, 08:47 AM   #117
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I am with you on this.

PDF would be the best format for a large screen, since it can preserve the fonts and layout as the publisher intended them to be. Like a printed page, if you will. If there is screen-size standardization, then we are set.

Ideally, PDF would have been an open source format, but it's not, and it's the best I've seen out there.

I don't get the need for yet another format, like EPUB, which seems to bring less to the table, to boot.
PDF is a fixed format. The page is as the page is. ePub is reflowable and a preperly made ePub can look good on a 6" eink screen or a 9.7" eink screen. That makes epub the better choice for reading. Plus, ePub can have different fonts and font sizes. PDF was never designed to be an eBook format.
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Old 05-06-2009, 08:51 AM   #118
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I think it's a little premature to assume there's no ePub support. I haven't seen it mentioned, the way pdf has been mentioned, but the leaks/articles are going to concentrate on the stuff that the most people are going to want to know. Everybody knows about pdf; you have to be an e-book aficionado to know about ePub, so ePub might not get mentioned even if it's on there.

We'll know more tomorrow.
If it's really the Kindle DX that gets announced later today, then there would be no reason at all to not mention an important feature such as ePub. So if Amazon doesn't mention ePub, it's because it's not there. And the thing is, are we really wanting a device that has built-in obsolescence with nothing on it for the future? Yes, Mobipocket/AZW is eventually going to become obsolete.
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Old 05-06-2009, 09:41 AM   #119
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A) It's his money.
And it's his post on a public forum. Ergo, it's my right to comment on it.

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Originally Posted by maynard View Post
B) He could buy a PRS 505 for $100 right now in the deals forum.
Or he could not return his Kindle 2.

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C) He wants a large format reader, regardless of who the vendor might be.
Then his wasn't very smart to buy a smaller screen reader in the first place. But his explanation doesn't seem to be what you claim; it seems he was happy to use a small format reader "for now" thinking something better was in the future. Now that he thinks something better is available today, he got rid of his small format reader, but he could be wrong about it being available today.

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D) Wireless may not matter to him.
Or it may matter a lot. That's why my propositions were in the form of a question.

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You certainly do seem to like promoting Amazon, Sir Bruce.
No, rather I think you seem like an overly defensive anti-Amazon enthusiast.
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Old 05-06-2009, 09:49 AM   #120
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And the thing is, are we really wanting a device that has built-in obsolescence with nothing on it for the future? Yes, Mobipocket/AZW is eventually going to become obsolete.
I agree with you that the MOBI/AZW format will eventually become obsolete. The ebook (at least, hardware-wise) is really just starting out. What's going to be important, I think, is what the transition to the next format looks like. Ideally, Amazon (or some other vendor) would be able to provide a device with support for both AZW and the Next Big Thing (whether that's epub or something else). But vendors won't do that unless they feel like they don't have a choice. For that to happen, someone is going to have to do an epub reader right -- in marketing, price, and features -- to compete with the Kindle. Sony is probably the closest to Kindle, in terms of users, but they've got a fair distance to go in terms of visibility and "mindshare". I think if Barnes & Noble come out with a good epub device, and sell it in stores, along with a good ad campaign and promotions, that could end up being a big deal.


The very nature of file formats mean that no format is necessarily immortal. There's no more reason to think that MOBI or AZW will die out than that PDF will. Look how long the DOC format has been around for. Epub does stand more of a chance since it's XML underneath, but changes in which tags are used, how the information is formatted, etc., could occur over time.

Acid-free paper is probably your best bet, if you're looking for longevity above all else.
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