ePub vs Mobi, I don't get it

[Kumabjorn]

Sorry if this has been thoroughly debated before. If that is the case, kindly ignore.

I see a lot of hard core positions on content format. Seems as an eRader user I have to be either pro or con. Well, I'm just indifferent. I simply don't get it.

It reminds me of the old PC vs. Mac camps. Is it inherent in new technology that it requires a theological dimension?

As a Kindle owner I have been deeply involved in all the threads about shipping woes. I noted today that Sony has announced new models. Great. More competition, more choices. And immediately there are all these posters lamenting lack of support for either format. One writes "if I didn't have xxx number of ePubs I would get a Kindle, I know I can convert them in Calibre, but it takes too long" and there are several posts along this line. While Kindle owners lament the inability to borrow from e-Libraries because the have all their books in ePub format.

For some reason I can't get annoyed at either Sony or Amazon, but I can see being annoyed at the vendor/provider who doesn't offer books in both formats. And why be tied up by the books you already have, isn't it more important to focus on the books you have yet to read? The new content you will get your grubby little hands to click on from now on and forward into the future?

I guess I might be an heretic, but then again religion has never done anything for me.

[GeoffC]

I'm sticking to mobi so I can use my dictionaries/thesaurus when I need to.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Kumabjorn

For some reason I can't get annoyed at either Sony or Amazon, but I can see being annoyed at the vendor/provider who doesn't offer books in both formats.

The overwhelming majority of books are available in both formats.

[captkjaneway]

To be honest isn't it true of any emerging/establishing technology that there will always be 2 main formats that seem to fight til the death.....VHS v Betamax, HDDVD v BluRay. With the wealth of options available to convert books/documents if it is not obtainable in your chosen format I don't really see the ire.

I chose a Kindle, knowing full well that to some extent I was tying myself to a particular party, but also being aware of the options to make it work for my needs.

Think of the poor blighters that bought dozens of betamax videos or HDDVD discs.......at least we can adapt

[K-Thom]

As a publisher I'm offering both formats for years. And since both formats are based on the same html file, it is merely a matter of some minutes to alter the "ePub-html" file to fit the needs of a "Mobi-html" file.

The limitations often is a matter of the shop software used.
It simply is easier to offer but one format. One file linked to one eBook, to one customer's account, one DRM scheme to be taken care of (and most shops use some kind of DRM method).
Usually the smaller the vendor the more formats offered - down to authors who sometimes offer formats which usually are outdated by now, but still sought after by readers.

Amazon bought Mobipocket back in 2005. ePub was developed in 2007.
In 2005 Mobi/prc was very well established and (next to PDF) the cross-platform format. I don't know if Amazon would have made the very same deal in 2007 or rather just have waited for ePub to establish.
So, Amazon invested quite a lot of money. Too much money to drop Mobi and switch to ePub. And why should they? The success of the Kindle proves Amazon right.

But the ball is in Amazon's court. It could just drop the exclusivity licence and allow manufacturers to integrate a DRM Mobi next to a DRM ePub. Would make everybody's life a whole lot more easier.

[GeoffC]

Originally Posted by K-Thom

As a publisher I'm offering both formats for years. And since both formats are based on the same html file, it is merely a matter of some minutes to alter the "ePub-html" file to fit the needs of a "Mobi-html" file.

The limitations often is a matter of the shop software used.
It simply is easier to offer but one format. One file linked to one eBook, to one customer's account, one DRM scheme to be taken care of (and most shops use some kind of DRM method).
Usually the smaller the vendor the more formats offered - down to authors who sometimes offer formats which usually are outdated by now, but still sought after by readers.

Amazon bought Mobipocket back in 2005. ePub was developed in 2007.
In 2005 Mobi/prc was very well established and (next to PDF) the cross-platform format. I don't know if Amazon would have made the very same deal in 2007 or rather just have waited for ePub to establish.
So, Amazon invested quite a lot of money. Too much money to drop Mobi and switch to ePub. And why should they? The success of the Kindle proves Amazon right.

But the ball is in Amazon's court. It could just drop the exclusivity licence and allow manufacturers to integrate a DRM Mobi next to a DRM ePub. Would make everybody's life a whole lot more easier.

Not if DRM remains .

[GhostHawk]

Call me the odd man out, I prefer *.RTF

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Kumabjorn

I see a lot of hard core positions on content format. Seems as an eRader user I have to be either pro or con. Well, I'm just indifferent. I simply don't get it.

Don't sweat it; all it means you're a normal, rational, *mainstream* consumer who doesn't get all worked up over what one giant corporation does to another.

The format/platform wars are a side effect of life on the bleeding edge of technology; when you're an early adopter of new tech you are making a statement of your intelligence, wisdom, daring, and (of course) good looks. So obviously, everybody must agree with your choices and your values, unless they are brain-dead zombies lumbering slack-jawed and drooling through life. It's hard being a leader without followers.

Or, you could say that people are subconsciously afraid they might have zigged when they should have zagged. That they may have chosen Beta instead of VHS. So they seek validation in evangelism and debate instead of enjoying their toy and reading a good story.

Me, I rather favor the first explanation, though.

[Tom Wood]

Originally Posted by K-Thom

Amazon bought Mobipocket back in 2005. ePub was developed in 2007.
In 2005 Mobi/prc was very well established and (next to PDF) the cross-platform format. I don't know if Amazon would have made the very same deal in 2007 or rather just have waited for ePub to establish.
So, Amazon invested quite a lot of money. Too much money to drop Mobi and switch to ePub. And why should they? The success of the Kindle proves Amazon right.

But the ball is in Amazon's court. It could just drop the exclusivity licence and allow manufacturers to integrate a DRM Mobi next to a DRM ePub. Would make everybody's life a whole lot more easier.

This supports recent comments by Amazon where they said they didn't want to have to wait for advances in a third party format before they could improve their own platform. Seeing how they've been able to jump so far ahead of everyone else for market share, can't blame them.

[kovidgoyal]

Originally Posted by Tom Wood

This supports recent comments by Amazon where they said they didn't want to have to wait for advances in a third party format before they could improve their own platform. Seeing how they've been able to jump so far ahead of everyone else for market share, can't blame them.

Just to note: Neither the MOBI nor the EPUB formats have evolved significantly for the last two years. IIRC, the only significant changes that Amazon made to MOBI after acquiring Mobipocket was DRM changes and support for indexing.

And EPUB is technically far superior to MOBI. MOBI is fundamentally a 15 year old format (based on HTML 3.2).

The only possible reason Amazon can have to stick with MOBI is wet dreams about monopolies.

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by kovidgoyal

...wet dreams about monopolies.

Love it! "It's funny because it's true." (Homer Simpson)

[Kali Yuga]

As an end-user, non-programmer and non-publisher, I don't see any substantial difference due to format. If there is some "technical" advantage to epub, I'm not seeing it as even remotely relevant to my decisions as a consumer.

Sony, in the midst of sliding into irrelevance, switched to ePub and in theory this allows for a more open platform. This might be good for Sony users but it doesn't seem to have provided much, if any, tangible results for Sony.

As to MOBI, Amazon's ebooks are available on almost any platform that can support Whispernet; for better and for worse, they have zero interest in selling you an ebook that isn't hooked into their database(s). And yes, shock and gasp, they really want you to buy their ebooks instead of buying them from Apple or B&N. As such, unless Sony or B&N decides to implement Amazon's ebook protocols, switching to ePub would not produce the results you'd necessarily expect.

[queentess]

Originally Posted by kovidgoyal

Just to note: Neither the MOBI nor the EPUB formats have evolved significantly for the last two years. IIRC, the only significant changes that Amazon made to MOBI after acquiring Mobipocket was DRM changes and support for indexing.

And EPUB is technically far superior to MOBI. MOBI is fundamentally a 15 year old format (based on HTML 3.2).

The only possible reason Amazon can have to stick with MOBI is wet dreams about monopolies.

I suppose if the publishers ever get with it, they should be dictating whichever format is easiest (or most robust) for their epublishing needs. Isn't this how the Bluray/HD-DVD war was fought, with movie studios deciding which format to release in?

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

As to MOBI, Amazon's ebooks are available on almost any platform that can support Whispernet; for better and for worse, they have zero interest in selling you an ebook that isn't hooked into their database(s). And yes, shock and gasp, they really want you to buy their ebooks instead of buying them from Apple or B&N. As such, unless Sony or B&N decides to implement Amazon's ebook protocols, switching to ePub would not produce the results you'd necessarily expect.

Correct.
Amazon has stated that they will license the Kindle DRM but *only* if the licensee supports Whispernet. Which renders Adobe's Adept servers redundant.
If whispernet is non-negotiable it follows that Amazon supporting whispernet means a *fourth* DRM-flavor for ePub.
Not something most people want to see.

Me, I'd love it; I want DRM to become such a humongous mess publishers finally wise up and dump it. With three incompatible flavors on ePub we're off to a good start.

And Amazon "monopoly dreams"? They're not looking to *establish* domination of book retailing; they're looking to *maintain* it. That ship has already sailed; long before Kindle was introduced. All they're doing is converting their *existing* pbook customers to ebook customers. And that is why mainstream kindle buyers don't care about lock-in; they were already buying their books from Amazon to start with.

And that is why Nook hit the ground running and has already become a solid number two in less than a year. And funny how nobody gripes about B&N's exclusive DRM, huh?

The reality, though, is the mainstream consumers don't *care* about formats or drm or technical features. They want to buy a book and read it. Many (most?) don't even care about resale rights or lending or libraries. They want a cheap read and that's it.

[kovidgoyal]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

As an end-user, non-programmer and non-publisher, I don't see any substantial difference due to format. If there is some "technical" advantage to epub, I'm not seeing it as even remotely relevant to my decisions as a consumer.

Simple examples of differences that even an end user can appreciate:

In MOBI it's impossible to have text and images side by side.

In MOBI you cannot embed fonts which means it is completely unsuitable for mathematical/foreign language publications

In MOBI you cannot format poetry

In MOBI you cannot have multi-level Tables of Contents

In MOBI you cannot have images that look the same at all resolutions (scalable/vector images)

In MOBI it is impossible to have semantic content, which means for example that you cannot re-use the insert book jacket feature in calibre to convert metadata into a book jacket.

And that is just the tip of the iceberg.